Real life and this game don't coexist.
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by tautology
Sack numbers are already quite respectable...just not from DTs.
So any sacks that DTs gain need to come at the expense of DEs or blitzers.
Otherwise the sim becomes unbalanced as QBs start eating dirt.
IMO -
Inside pass rushing needs to be more viable (from DT and LB) and blocking scheme needs to be improved to slow down outside pass rushing.
Here are some of the issues that lead to the current situation
1. DTs are almost always the first players double teamed, and are sometimes doubled while leaving a pass rusher unblocked. Although, DTs don't seem to be able to break 1 v 1 blocks any better than 2 or 3 v 1 blocks, so having double team go to DEs may not help them.
2. With the new DPC limitations, you can't get a DT into advantageous position on pass rush to take advantage of a speed advantage (can't try to position a high speed DT where a slower OL can't get over to make block in time). The exception to this is using goal line defense and shifting weak so that DT2 is unblocked unless TE is held in to pass block left.
3. Inability to fix blocking schemes vs. outside blitzes. But the code is so rigid that you always end up with all or none scenarios when it comes to 5 OL blocking 4 - 5 pass rushers. They either pick up all the pass rushers every time, or the OL always misses 1.
4. The QBs failing to step up into the pocket to avoid outside pressure that has been mentioned in this and other threads.
Sack numbers are already quite respectable...just not from DTs.
So any sacks that DTs gain need to come at the expense of DEs or blitzers.
Otherwise the sim becomes unbalanced as QBs start eating dirt.
IMO -
Inside pass rushing needs to be more viable (from DT and LB) and blocking scheme needs to be improved to slow down outside pass rushing.
Here are some of the issues that lead to the current situation
1. DTs are almost always the first players double teamed, and are sometimes doubled while leaving a pass rusher unblocked. Although, DTs don't seem to be able to break 1 v 1 blocks any better than 2 or 3 v 1 blocks, so having double team go to DEs may not help them.
2. With the new DPC limitations, you can't get a DT into advantageous position on pass rush to take advantage of a speed advantage (can't try to position a high speed DT where a slower OL can't get over to make block in time). The exception to this is using goal line defense and shifting weak so that DT2 is unblocked unless TE is held in to pass block left.
3. Inability to fix blocking schemes vs. outside blitzes. But the code is so rigid that you always end up with all or none scenarios when it comes to 5 OL blocking 4 - 5 pass rushers. They either pick up all the pass rushers every time, or the OL always misses 1.
4. The QBs failing to step up into the pocket to avoid outside pressure that has been mentioned in this and other threads.
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by risico
Are sacks per passing attempt really in line with what you generally see in real football? I feel like there are fewer sacks per pass attempt in GLB than in real football, but I haven't done any math.
They are actually slightly higher. But it is typically the result of huge numbers coming in a small % of games due to teams catching an offense by surprise and racking them up with a specific blitz vs. a specific formation.
Are sacks per passing attempt really in line with what you generally see in real football? I feel like there are fewer sacks per pass attempt in GLB than in real football, but I haven't done any math.
They are actually slightly higher. But it is typically the result of huge numbers coming in a small % of games due to teams catching an offense by surprise and racking them up with a specific blitz vs. a specific formation.
tautology
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Originally posted by bhall43
The math would be incredibly ridiculous. Screens make up way too much of the pass attempts for most teams. Bort's passing code makes QB's wait far too long to pass on a lot of the plays in the book regardless of slider settings due to the hot spots. And generally a lot of good or bad shit for either side happens in garbage time where in real life...teams are running out the clock for the most part. In GLB you are pushing a 70 point lead into the 200's because the other team has lost the will to live.
The math is pretty ridiculous, I agree.
But MPHD had 65 sacks on the regular season, 59 of those from DEs. I blitzed hardly all this season, and didn't blitz from the CB or safety positions at all.
That's 4 sacks per game in the best conference in GLB and without much in the way of really lopsided games, using 3 or 4 man fronts almost exclusively.
The math would be incredibly ridiculous. Screens make up way too much of the pass attempts for most teams. Bort's passing code makes QB's wait far too long to pass on a lot of the plays in the book regardless of slider settings due to the hot spots. And generally a lot of good or bad shit for either side happens in garbage time where in real life...teams are running out the clock for the most part. In GLB you are pushing a 70 point lead into the 200's because the other team has lost the will to live.
The math is pretty ridiculous, I agree.
But MPHD had 65 sacks on the regular season, 59 of those from DEs. I blitzed hardly all this season, and didn't blitz from the CB or safety positions at all.
That's 4 sacks per game in the best conference in GLB and without much in the way of really lopsided games, using 3 or 4 man fronts almost exclusively.
bhall43
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Originally posted by tautology
The math is pretty ridiculous, I agree.
But MPHD had 65 sacks on the regular season, 59 of those from DEs. I blitzed hardly all this season, and didn't blitz from the CB or safety positions at all.
That's 4 sacks per game in the best conference in GLB and without much in the way of really lopsided games, using 3 or 4 man fronts almost exclusively.
I almost find your dline OP'd to an extent...3 man fronts taking on 5-6 guys at a time like they do is ridiculous.
The math is pretty ridiculous, I agree.
But MPHD had 65 sacks on the regular season, 59 of those from DEs. I blitzed hardly all this season, and didn't blitz from the CB or safety positions at all.
That's 4 sacks per game in the best conference in GLB and without much in the way of really lopsided games, using 3 or 4 man fronts almost exclusively.
I almost find your dline OP'd to an extent...3 man fronts taking on 5-6 guys at a time like they do is ridiculous.
bhall43
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But that isn't to say that the trenches aspect isn't just completely lol either...oline builds have come a long way from mattering to a certain extent and fast more agile DE's aren't proving to be much more worth against slower unathletic olinemen either.
risico
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Originally posted by tautology
The math is pretty ridiculous, I agree.
But MPHD had 65 sacks on the regular season, 59 of those from DEs. I blitzed hardly all this season, and didn't blitz from the CB or safety positions at all.
That's 4 sacks per game in the best conference in GLB and without much in the way of really lopsided games, using 3 or 4 man fronts almost exclusively.
That is with teams passing probably 700 times a season on average. So 1 sack in every 10-11 pass attempts on average with no blitzing.
I think there need to be changes on both sides - fix the way the QB moves and reads defenses within the pocket and make it advantageous to have a QB that isn't a rocket-armed statue. I also think there need to be more viable short passing options for OCs who want to beat the blitz. I am a bit tired of seeing screens dominate the short passing game.
But DEs need to be able to generate outside pressure that forces the QB to step up. Right now they just crash into the OTs who seem to always get into position to block them (apart from screen passes). Their pathing is messed up.
And IMO coverage on square patterns is utterly broken. Maybe there needs to be an increased role of vision in "pattern reading" so that CBs with more vision are better able to adjust to the cuts of a WR running his route.
The math is pretty ridiculous, I agree.
But MPHD had 65 sacks on the regular season, 59 of those from DEs. I blitzed hardly all this season, and didn't blitz from the CB or safety positions at all.
That's 4 sacks per game in the best conference in GLB and without much in the way of really lopsided games, using 3 or 4 man fronts almost exclusively.
That is with teams passing probably 700 times a season on average. So 1 sack in every 10-11 pass attempts on average with no blitzing.
I think there need to be changes on both sides - fix the way the QB moves and reads defenses within the pocket and make it advantageous to have a QB that isn't a rocket-armed statue. I also think there need to be more viable short passing options for OCs who want to beat the blitz. I am a bit tired of seeing screens dominate the short passing game.
But DEs need to be able to generate outside pressure that forces the QB to step up. Right now they just crash into the OTs who seem to always get into position to block them (apart from screen passes). Their pathing is messed up.
And IMO coverage on square patterns is utterly broken. Maybe there needs to be an increased role of vision in "pattern reading" so that CBs with more vision are better able to adjust to the cuts of a WR running his route.
bhall43
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Originally posted by risico
But DEs need to be able to generate outside pressure that forces the QB to step up. Right now they just crash into the OTs who seem to always get into position to block them (apart from screen passes). Their pathing is messed up.
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regardless of tactics too...was watching dprides 150 speed DE last night on evasive just laughing at every snap because all the DE does is try to bull rush the OT.
The OT on the other hand...im gonna guess less than 90 agility and less than 70 speed most times...perfectly steps back without a blink and works him perfectly the entire time...never getting beat off the snap.
But DEs need to be able to generate outside pressure that forces the QB to step up. Right now they just crash into the OTs who seem to always get into position to block them (apart from screen passes). Their pathing is messed up.
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regardless of tactics too...was watching dprides 150 speed DE last night on evasive just laughing at every snap because all the DE does is try to bull rush the OT.
The OT on the other hand...im gonna guess less than 90 agility and less than 70 speed most times...perfectly steps back without a blink and works him perfectly the entire time...never getting beat off the snap.
risico
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Originally posted by bhall43
regardless of tactics too...was watching dprides 150 speed DE last night on evasive just laughing at every snap because all the DE does is try to bull rush the OT.
The OT on the other hand...im gonna guess less than 90 agility and less than 70 speed most times...perfectly steps back without a blink and works him perfectly the entire time...never getting beat off the snap.
Yep, the OT never gets faked, falls down, or gets a bad jump off the snap. He's always right in position to intercept the DE who gladly runs directly into him.
regardless of tactics too...was watching dprides 150 speed DE last night on evasive just laughing at every snap because all the DE does is try to bull rush the OT.
The OT on the other hand...im gonna guess less than 90 agility and less than 70 speed most times...perfectly steps back without a blink and works him perfectly the entire time...never getting beat off the snap.
Yep, the OT never gets faked, falls down, or gets a bad jump off the snap. He's always right in position to intercept the DE who gladly runs directly into him.
tautology
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Originally posted by risico
That is with teams passing probably 700 times a season on average. So 1 sack in every 10-11 pass attempts on average with no blitzing.
I think there need to be changes on both sides - fix the way the QB moves and reads defenses within the pocket and make it advantageous to have a QB that isn't a rocket-armed statue. I also think there need to be more viable short passing options for OCs who want to beat the blitz. I am a bit tired of seeing screens dominate the short passing game.
But DEs need to be able to generate outside pressure that forces the QB to step up. Right now they just crash into the OTs who seem to always get into position to block them (apart from screen passes). Their pathing is messed up.
And IMO coverage on square patterns is utterly broken. Maybe there needs to be an increased role of vision in "pattern reading" so that CBs with more vision are better able to adjust to the cuts of a WR running his route.
CBs do better on those patterns with the right build and settings, and a HUGE part of how those patterns work has to do with how the DPC is set up.
And there are literally a ton of good short passing options to beat the blitz without using screens. In fact, I would say most screen plays are more vulnerable to blitzes than a lot of the better short passing patterns (due to how the screen blocking is coded).
That is with teams passing probably 700 times a season on average. So 1 sack in every 10-11 pass attempts on average with no blitzing.
I think there need to be changes on both sides - fix the way the QB moves and reads defenses within the pocket and make it advantageous to have a QB that isn't a rocket-armed statue. I also think there need to be more viable short passing options for OCs who want to beat the blitz. I am a bit tired of seeing screens dominate the short passing game.
But DEs need to be able to generate outside pressure that forces the QB to step up. Right now they just crash into the OTs who seem to always get into position to block them (apart from screen passes). Their pathing is messed up.
And IMO coverage on square patterns is utterly broken. Maybe there needs to be an increased role of vision in "pattern reading" so that CBs with more vision are better able to adjust to the cuts of a WR running his route.
CBs do better on those patterns with the right build and settings, and a HUGE part of how those patterns work has to do with how the DPC is set up.
And there are literally a ton of good short passing options to beat the blitz without using screens. In fact, I would say most screen plays are more vulnerable to blitzes than a lot of the better short passing patterns (due to how the screen blocking is coded).
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by tautology
The math is pretty ridiculous, I agree.
But MPHD had 65 sacks on the regular season, 59 of those from DEs. I blitzed hardly all this season, and didn't blitz from the CB or safety positions at all.
That's 4 sacks per game in the best conference in GLB and without much in the way of really lopsided games, using 3 or 4 man fronts almost exclusively.
How many of those sacks came with 3 OL blocking the NT and the DEs basically going 1v1 against the OTs or the OTs getting help from ineffective HB block?
Would be much more interesting if the OL double teamed both DEs and single blocked the NT sometimes, and doubled he NT and 1 of the DEs at others. It might or might not change the total numbers of sacks, but would probably change the distribution.
The math is pretty ridiculous, I agree.
But MPHD had 65 sacks on the regular season, 59 of those from DEs. I blitzed hardly all this season, and didn't blitz from the CB or safety positions at all.
That's 4 sacks per game in the best conference in GLB and without much in the way of really lopsided games, using 3 or 4 man fronts almost exclusively.
How many of those sacks came with 3 OL blocking the NT and the DEs basically going 1v1 against the OTs or the OTs getting help from ineffective HB block?
Would be much more interesting if the OL double teamed both DEs and single blocked the NT sometimes, and doubled he NT and 1 of the DEs at others. It might or might not change the total numbers of sacks, but would probably change the distribution.
tautology
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
How many of those sacks came with 3 OL blocking the NT and the DEs basically going 1v1 against the OTs or the OTs getting help from ineffective HB block?
Would be much more interesting if the OL double teamed both DEs and single blocked the NT sometimes, and doubled he NT and 1 of the DEs at others. It might or might not change the total numbers of sacks, but would probably change the distribution.
It seems sensible that with a three man rush, the O-line would start double teaming the guy who has been beating them the most.
If a DE has gotten two sacks already and no-one else is getting there, it makes perfect sense to send some help.
That would also undermine the value of streaky on the D-line of course
How many of those sacks came with 3 OL blocking the NT and the DEs basically going 1v1 against the OTs or the OTs getting help from ineffective HB block?
Would be much more interesting if the OL double teamed both DEs and single blocked the NT sometimes, and doubled he NT and 1 of the DEs at others. It might or might not change the total numbers of sacks, but would probably change the distribution.
It seems sensible that with a three man rush, the O-line would start double teaming the guy who has been beating them the most.
If a DE has gotten two sacks already and no-one else is getting there, it makes perfect sense to send some help.
That would also undermine the value of streaky on the D-line of course
bhall43
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Originally posted by tautology
That would also undermine the value of streaky on the D-line of course
hmm would it tho? the good day streaky guy would suddenly be taking the brunt of the blocking opening lanes for blitz's and possibly even the non streaky guy. Whereas right now the non streaky guy is like fuck man...im super sick and feeling lethargic and you guys are still double teaming the crap outta me...lolu.
That would also undermine the value of streaky on the D-line of course
hmm would it tho? the good day streaky guy would suddenly be taking the brunt of the blocking opening lanes for blitz's and possibly even the non streaky guy. Whereas right now the non streaky guy is like fuck man...im super sick and feeling lethargic and you guys are still double teaming the crap outta me...lolu.
bug03
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Originally posted by bhall43
hmm would it tho? the good day streaky guy would suddenly be taking the brunt of the blocking opening lanes for blitz's and possibly even the non streaky guy. Whereas right now the non streaky guy is like fuck man...im super sick and feeling lethargic and you guys are still double teaming the crap outta me...lolu.
I'd like to see a delayed blitz work tbh
hmm would it tho? the good day streaky guy would suddenly be taking the brunt of the blocking opening lanes for blitz's and possibly even the non streaky guy. Whereas right now the non streaky guy is like fuck man...im super sick and feeling lethargic and you guys are still double teaming the crap outta me...lolu.
I'd like to see a delayed blitz work tbh
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