Warrior General Games

Originally posted by PING72
But the same thing could be said about passing it 70 times/game early in the season, too. Not as much this season, but last year is a good example. You could throw it 70 times a game and the other team's CB's couldn't really stop it. But later in the season that stuff didn't work nearly as well.

Agreed. Both tactics are garbage. Passing however is at least more fun to watch and can be combated with a balanced attack. Stopping 70 slams a game means you just gamble and hope they don't change it up on you and actually throw it.

Originally posted by juiceweezl
Agreed. Both tactics are garbage. Passing however is at least more fun to watch and can be combated with a balanced attack. Stopping 70 slams a game means you just gamble and hope they don't change it up on you and actually throw it.

good post.

Originally posted by Stoner DTD
I really didn't see that much wrong with the passing game last season, near the end of the season teams actually set up against the pass and the all passing offense became more realistic.

Teams should be able to pass 70 times a game and win, just like teams who run 70 times should be able to win... and teams in between....

Last season's sim with a pump fake nerf would be the best sim so far in peeewee history, sad to see them wreck so much havoc against it instead.

Even if passing is possible... a pass heavy offense is absolutely not sensible right now.

i can definitely agree with that. teams should be able to run the types of offense that they personally prefer, not be forced into something by the sim. last year, pump fake was aq bit overpowered which pushed a lot of people towards the pass, and this year with the passing game gone all to hell almost everyone is getting pushed towards the run.

I personally have always been a fan of running the ball and maximizing time of possession to try to keep the other team off the field. That's just the style i prefer and i personally find it much more enjoyable to watch than just chucking it downfield. That's just my personal opinion though and i know some people are the exact opposite and want to be able to air it out. What the sim should do is provide those options so that there are various styles that can effectively be played.

Sorry I kind of went off on you earlier mcgeezy/juice, i'm normally pretty chill but it just irked me that you guys basically said i don't gameplan and just take the easy way out. even running the ball all game, i still do a lot of scouting to determine best formations to run out of, where the holes are, what personnel i should use. i don't just hit the scouting toolbar and run whatever 5 plays come up first 15 times each, that really would be cheap shit.

So anyway, i don't see anything wrong with my style of play considering that's just the type of football i like to watch. The problem i see is that not everyone can actually set up their O the way they would like within the current sim. if they could fix that, this game would be golden

I would consider running game scout and running the first 5 plays to be a bit above running the same 3-4 plays which work against everyone without doing a bit of scouting.

I have always been about having a very simplistic OAI/DAI to enable me to prepare individually for every game, the challenge of it is extremely fun. Granted... this leads to me making AI errors all too frequently, and often times me beating myself before the game even starts.... but it is a great deal more fun then the type of stuff people start to gear towards with the run heavy sim of season 12.

When every team in the league is running the exact same offense regardless of who their playing... its not a pretty sight.

It is the SIMs fault that only one offense is functioning right now, but that doesn't mean everyone has to drop everything and start running it.

True, there are still some teams out there who are passing with pretty good success. It's just not the same plays that worked as last year so most people haven't figured it out yet. My team ran it the majority of the time last year as well, the AI this year only changed because i decided to change the formatting of it a little bit to make it a little simpler easier to work with on a game to game basis so i can change things up for each game like you just mentioned.

For example, if you look at DA vs DSBT, we didn't even run slams from I or strong I, which are typically the ones that work decently well against everyone. We actually ran 2/3 of our rushes from Pro Set because I thought their D looked weak in the middle against that formation. Obviously I was correct. Other games we've run the ball with pitches all day, some games it does end up being the traditional slams because that's all the defense is open to. Even with all running there is still a lot of scouting to be done if you actually want to be successful at it.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. Only time will tell.

Fair enough. If it doesn't look like we'll be facing each other in any tourneys feel free to have Nif send us over a scrim from LB and we can duke it out on the field

Passing, while not a good as last season is not broken.
HH has managed a 2-2 record with an autopilot passing atTack

Originally posted by junglejuice
True, there are still some teams out there who are passing with pretty good success. It's just not the same plays that worked as last year so most people haven't figured it out yet. My team ran it the majority of the time last year as well, the AI this year only changed because i decided to change the formatting of it a little bit to make it a little simpler easier to work with on a game to game basis so i can change things up for each game like you just mentioned.

For example, if you look at DA vs DSBT, we didn't even run slams from I or strong I, which are typically the ones that work decently well against everyone. We actually ran 2/3 of our rushes from Pro Set because I thought their D looked weak in the middle against that formation. Obviously I was correct. Other games we've run the ball with pitches all day, some games it does end up being the traditional slams because that's all the defense is open to. Even with all running there is still a lot of scouting to be done if you actually want to be successful at it.

I agree. Some teams are passing better this season. Passing still works, it's just different plays and different progressions that are working better. PW has always been an adapt (or innovate) or die league. Just like some of the older guys got left behind when the sim changed to the passing attack of the last few seasons, you are now seeing some of the newer coaches get left behind now that the sim has nerfed the deep passing attack. You always need to adapt.

I also like your point about attacking the PS formation. I will ALWAYS be a proponent of a sim that rewards good scouting. One of the things I didn't like about the passing attack of the past few seasons, or about the seasons where you just ran slam/OT all the time is that you didn't really have to scout. You could just run the same plays over and over again. I like how teams that scout now have an advantage again. With the balanced sim, it is tough to be able to stop everything...so now you can exploit weaknesses if you are willing to change your AI each game. I like how it's getting back to the stronger days of PW gold where you'd have to gameplan/scout and change your AI every game to have reasonable success. It took a couple hours per game to do well in PW Gold, now you can get by on 15-20 minutes.

Couldn't possibly be that its only you spending less time scouting... and that you and a few other teams that have seemed to coast the past few seasons are doing so well... are doing well because your riding the same 5 plays to victory that you have for the past few seasons... just now its the only way to win so teams trying to do anything else struggle....

Originally posted by Stoner DTD
Couldn't possibly be that its only you spending less time scouting... and that you and a few other teams that have seemed to coast the past few seasons are doing so well... are doing well because your riding the same 5 plays to victory that you have for the past few seasons... just now its the only way to win so teams trying to do anything else struggle....

@ you. You obviously didn't scout me, no wonder I kicked your ass so bad. Go run a 'scout' feature on my 4 PW gold games. In 4 games there are only 4 plays I've run more than 10 times TOTAL in 4 games, and the top being 15. That's not even 4 times/game. I've used almost every run play in the entire playbook. By contrast, Lunch Box (in gold games) have run the slam plays 20+ times, and the OT 17 times.

You really have no clue what you're talking about. My whole point is that BALANCE is now king, which I think is great. Last season you basically ran 5 plays all game...they just happened to be 5 pass plays. Now you're pissed b/c those 5 pass plays won't win you the game anymore.

You won because you played against basic defenses.

Balance shouldn't be king, the best team with the best scouts should be king.

Balance is only one play style... your just so full of yourself that your favorite style of offense is the only one that can do good right now...

My team ran more of a variety of passing plays than anyone else in the league last season, we also had no points in pump fake until the post season.

Everyone likes to lump us in to some kind of awful bug abusers category last season... to which I just sit back and laugh...

Originally posted by junglejuice
True, there are still some teams out there who are passing with pretty good success. It's just not the same plays that worked as last year so most people haven't figured it out yet. My team ran it the majority of the time last year as well, the AI this year only changed because i decided to change the formatting of it a little bit to make it a little simpler easier to work with on a game to game basis so i can change things up for each game like you just mentioned.

For example, if you look at DA vs DSBT, we didn't even run slams from I or strong I, which are typically the ones that work decently well against everyone. We actually ran 2/3 of our rushes from Pro Set because I thought their D looked weak in the middle against that formation. Obviously I was correct. Other games we've run the ball with pitches all day, some games it does end up being the traditional slams because that's all the defense is open to. Even with all running there is still a lot of scouting to be done if you actually want to be successful at it.

JJ, the problem with your approach (and the SIM in reality) is that it isn't a true reflection of what dotball should be or reality. Bort claims there's a RPP. In real life, try running that same play and see what happens. The defense would adjust accordingly. If the offense failed to adjust, it would be 3 and out consistently. Eventually they'd adjust or get beaten. Supposedly RPP penalty is in effect. 2 or 3 seasons ago, one team ran the same play like 46 times against us. That's not scouting, coaching, etc. -- it's a BS SIM.

You should be able to run what you want, but it should be reasonable within the SIM. PW passes are harder to complete this season and have never been 100% perfect. Too many times a wide open pass catcher just flat out drops the ball. That shouldn't have whether the dots are 10 days or 10 seasons old -- regardless of their catching ability. The rushing attack isn't susceptible to that same type of treatment in the SIM. You pretty much know what's going to happen with inside and OT runs, at least from a minimum gain stand point.

Personally, I like to run a balanced attack that tends to slant more towards passing in early downs. I will go ball control in games that I expect to be close on 2nd/3rd and short yardage, but I still like to pass because it gives more dots a chance to see action with the ball. To me, it's more exciting, but everyone is different. I guess the bottom line is the term "AI" in the SIM isn't really "AI" just like the RPP is bogus.

Originally posted by Stoner DTD
Balance shouldn't be king, the best team with the best scouts should be king.

Balance is only one play style... your just so full of yourself that your favorite style of offense is the only one that can do good right now...

By balance I mean that teams can win in a variety of different ways. Meaning, that the best teams with the best scouts ARE winning. If a team is too lazy to adapt to what is working (or if they're too lazy to scout and figure out what that is), then they don't deserve to win. And that really does apply to whatever the current sim is like. I am strongly opposed to a sim in which a very 1-dimensional team can have great success. I like the balanced sim b/c the best teams will have to do a multitude of different things to win. IRL a team that wins by passing 60 times/game has to be very very good at that one thing. I'm not opposed to that. But the whole purpose of PW is to start us all on even footing. With just 13 levels, there is not enough room to grow into a team that is super specialized. You can definitely lean towards a certain offense, but the gap is much smaller than a team full of level 70 players that are focused on an aerial attack.

I don't understand how you can say the best teams and scouts aren't currently winning.

And what is my favorite style of offense that is doing well right now? My offense this season is vastly different than any offense I've ever run before in 10+ seasons of PeeWee. It's not my favorite, but I've adapted, as have all of the good coaches.