Warrior General Games

Originally posted by misled
You're all retarded... jumping and catching are WAY more important than speed. If you get it to 100+ all you have to do is JUMP and catch! Shit. Amazing coverage skills.

+1!

Oh Underdogs, Why dont you show us a reply of some of the really good 90/90 CBs getting burned. Its hard to just take someones word on something that you dont already believe. Only way to convince people your right is with hard evidence.

Originally posted by bscott8
Originally posted by mmuhr

90/85 or 95/80 if you really wanna be fast. Those that go to 100 are jokes.

What's that? I can't hear you all the way back there...

100+ speed got me 13 pick 6's this year = speed kills. That plus ballhawk means you have time to smoke a cig before the ball gets there.

I know I'm quoting an old post but... 8 of your 13 picks were against gutted or near gutted teams... I know people too quickly dismiss the thoughts of players on the basis of their level and league, but in this instance your player really offers no evidence of substance my friend. No offense meant.

My CB has <85 speed and he got 10 picks last year in USA Pro west (arguably the best conference in GLB). Also, only 1 of them was against a gutted team, and he would have won the conference's INT gold medal if some other guy didn't get like 7 picks against that gutted team.

Though, that aside, INT's of course do not make a great CB. A better indicator is how you do when targeted. My CB had 80 combined tackles/PDs/INTs, so one could say he roughly was targeted 80 times. Your CB on the other hand had 192 combined targets. This means two things:

1. Your CB was thrown at often, which means either the opposing QB viewed him as a week link, or that he regularly allowed the man he was covering to get open in coverage. Both are bad, and the 2nd one is more likely.

2. Especially if you take away the gutted teams, your CB is not particularly good at getting INTs.

And please, don't take this topic down the worthless path of "I get all my tackles in run support" since I doubt, on average, you get 4 more tackles a game vs the run than other CBs do...

Thanks for playing though.

Also, if anyone wants to question my CB. I challenge you to find more than two plays from last season that went for deep TDs as a result of him getting burnt (not a result of missed PD/INT or of a successful pump fake). Seriously, feel free to look over some Hedgehogs tape.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
I can't believe we are still debating this. Since everyone is pulling the "well you aren't in Pro" or "you don't have an elite cb" crap, I'll settle it.

Yes Man has played on one of the top teams in the history of GLB, Prague, and currently plays on one of the best teams, MEM, in the best league. I have seen the builds of most of the cbs on those two teams, and discuss cbs regularly with some of the top cb builders in the game. Those cbs are the ones covering the top wrs in the game including possibly the fastest wr, Colon Grifter.

That is my resume, here is what I have to say: one hundred speed is completely unnecessary. Most of the top cbs have speed/agility in the 95/85 to 90/90 range. The balance of speed to agility is necessary to take full advantage of your speed, and to keep up with a cutting wr. Getting speed to 100 is a waste of sps and forces you to sacrifice other more important areas. The people who argue that speed has to be at 100 or more don't understand that there is very much more to building a great cb than high speed. Speed is essentially the base that you start your build on, but once you get it to the proper level--68 base plus auto-level gains--other skills become more important. The top cbs aren't top because they have a lot more speed than other cbs, they are the top cbs because they have the other stuff at higher levels and in the proper proportion.

This man knows what he's talking about imo.

While I disagree with that notion that there is 1 specific way to build the ultimate CB, or that there is only one type of build that can be highly successful, I agree that you don't need 100+ speed to have a fantastic player. Though that's also not to say its impossible to be a great player with 100+ speed, but it sure as hell isn't a necessity with everyone not having it being retarded...

There are so many attributes that are important to do different things, and so many attributes that work together that there is a lot of wiggle room. Hell, I'm willing to bet that its possible to have a pro bowl CB who has speed, or agility, or vision as their highest attribute. When you take equip away from one, you put it on another and that other thing also helps. CB WR and HB are perhaps the 3 positions where you can have the most diversity in successful builds imo.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
The best receivers in pro with 120+ speed burn the shit out of 90/90 guys. The other receivers who can't burn 90/90 corners do not have 100+ speed.

This statement is untrue in several ways...

#1 The best receivers in Pro are not necessarily the fastest.

#2 Those 120+ speeders do not burn the shit out of 90/90 guys. Not consistantly and certainly not all hte time.

#3 The vast majority of Pro WRs have 100+ speed. Its nothing special.

#4 Seriously, I'd say 90%+ of WRs in USA Pro have 100+ speed, yet CBs with less speed do not make their teams lose every single game to the deep ball.

#5 The VAST majority of times when a WR beats a CB over the top on the deep ball either...
a. The CB was pumpfaked.
b. The CB missed on a PD or INT
c. The CB was headfaked by the WR

And one could argue that all 3 of those are more a result of poor vision than poor speed imo...

WiSeIVIaN ftw.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Originally posted by bscott8

Originally posted by mmuhr


90/85 or 95/80 if you really wanna be fast. Those that go to 100 are jokes.

What's that? I can't hear you all the way back there...

100+ speed got me 13 pick 6's this year = speed kills. That plus ballhawk means you have time to smoke a cig before the ball gets there.

I know I'm quoting an old post but... 8 of your 13 picks were against gutted or near gutted teams... I know people too quickly dismiss the thoughts of players on the basis of their level and league, but in this instance your player really offers no evidence of substance my friend. No offense meant.

My CB has <85 speed and he got 10 picks last year in USA Pro west (arguably the best conference in GLB). Also, only 1 of them was against a gutted team, and he would have won the conference's INT gold medal if some other guy didn't get like 7 picks against that gutted team.

Though, that aside, INT's of course do not make a great CB. A better indicator is how you do when targeted. My CB had 80 combined tackles/PDs/INTs, so one could say he roughly was targeted 80 times. Your CB on the other hand had 192 combined targets. This means two things:

1. Your CB was thrown at often, which means either the opposing QB viewed him as a week link, or that he regularly allowed the man he was covering to get open in coverage. Both are bad, and the 2nd one is more likely.

2. Especially if you take away the gutted teams, your CB is not particularly good at getting INTs.

And please, don't take this topic down the worthless path of "I get all my tackles in run support" since I doubt, on average, you get 4 more tackles a game vs the run than other CBs do...

Thanks for playing though.

Also, if anyone wants to question my CB. I challenge you to find more than two plays from last season that went for deep TDs as a result of him getting burnt (not a result of missed PD/INT or of a successful pump fake). Seriously, feel free to look over some Hedgehogs tape.

thankyou. Brilliant!

I should hang out on the CB forums more. Its nice in here.

Next topic, would 3-capping catching on a CB make you retarded/crazy?

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
I should hang out on the CB forums more. Its nice in here.

Next topic, would 3-capping catching on a CB make you retarded/crazy?

no, i may not do it on my current lvl 50, but its in the plan for my current lvl 13.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Originally posted by UnderDogs

The best receivers in pro with 120+ speed burn the shit out of 90/90 guys. The other receivers who can't burn 90/90 corners do not have 100+ speed.

This statement is untrue in several ways...

#1 The best receivers in Pro are not necessarily the fastest.

#2 Those 120+ speeders do not burn the shit out of 90/90 guys. Not consistantly and certainly not all hte time.

#3 The vast majority of Pro WRs have 100+ speed. Its nothing special.

#4 Seriously, I'd say 90%+ of WRs in USA Pro have 100+ speed, yet CBs with less speed do not make their teams lose every single game to the deep ball.

#5 The VAST majority of times when a WR beats a CB over the top on the deep ball either...
a. The CB was pumpfaked.
b. The CB missed on a PD or INT
c. The CB was headfaked by the WR

And one could argue that all 3 of those are more a result of poor vision than poor speed imo...

Amen to this post!

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
I should hang out on the CB forums more. Its nice in here.

Next topic, would 3-capping catching on a CB make you retarded/crazy?

I probably wouldn't do that unless I have the other major attributes at least 3rd capped too. Those major attributes (in my opinion) are Speed, Agility, Vision and Jumping (in that order). Additionally, before 3rd capping catching the Shutdown Corner Tree needs to have all 4's (at least) with FS and CD at least 6. Again all those point assignments are just my opinions.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
I should hang out on the CB forums more. Its nice in here.

Next topic, would 3-capping catching on a CB make you retarded/crazy?

You need an invite to longhorns forum!

Umm....I wouldnt 3rdcap catching. Too expensive. I would just 2ndcap catching and jumping. I doubt the extra 8 catching would do all that much.

60 speed CB's unite for the pro leagues. We can do it without speed or Free safeties.

This is one of those threads I will expect to be bumped in a couple seasons. If 90 speed CB's are hanging with 110+ speed wr's, which is debatable, what will you guys do if Bort changes that follow code and tweaks the point that follow code goes bye bye during a play?

100 speed, 80 agi with solid first step will get you toasted in the Pros like a black salt bagel.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=662406&pbp_id=639408

Originally posted by randomguymike
100 speed, 80 agi with solid first step will get you toasted in the Pros like a black salt bagel.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=662406&pbp_id=639408

that looks like a vision problem on the CB. whats the vision at?