Warrior General Games

Well...this thread is an eye-opener...But not really a surprise - Bandits players would (in general) jump all over this on principle only. Their team is being attacked - rightly or wrongly? The truth is likely somewhere in the middle. I do find it interesting how quickly the Bandits jumped all over the messenger though - is it because the message can't be disputed? I'm not sure.

The whole thing does seem questionable to me. I certainly don't understand why you'd place winning above acting properly, but it is pretty much how the Bandits have conducted themselves all season long.

I wished them good luck after they beat the Squirrels and I stand by that. However, for the rest of the season (and the foreseeable future I expect), I cheer for two teams in the Oceania Pro: Wagga Wagga and whoever's playing the Bandits.

Originally posted by Ballbright
Why would you be surprised. I have players on a team in your conference, and own a team in the other. I'd say I have a vested interest, and would be more surprised if people like myself didn't speak out.

You're obviously late coming to this, as the reason I am so pissed is that Billy either lied, or outright misrepresented himself several times in the original thread, and I was defending him (and there I had noted that I had players on the team directly below his).

I'm not throwing charges out there, they've been proven by Billy and Cats own posts in this thread.

By definition Billy colluded. That is cheating.

So when Drifter defends the team you dismiss it as motivated by his bias for his team. But when you attack, that is just because you have a vested interest and anyone would expect that?

And you haven't proven anything. You've taken an extremely broad definition of collusion (ironic given that those who were defending billyvassi in that other thread were taking an extremely narrow defintion of gutting and saying that it wasn't gutting because the team wasn't sold). Collusion is not a bright-line violation in most cases, and certainly not in a case of one transaction like this. And you've completely ignored the numerous circumstances that argue against collusion.

Originally posted by joemalaka
What some people are thinking (this was from the two PM's from users not even involved in this thread and the ones that gave me a heads up about the trades being "fishy") is that Catspaw did know and why he so quickly banned me and benched me. Why would he so quickly do that? That is what started all this, a day before this thread even happened. People questioned my banning and benching right away..people not even on the Bandits or involved in the trades. Some knew what happened and didn't like it.

That's why I wrote that the Bandit's owner wasn't totally innocent here, and why I put the caveat about "if" he knew about the gutting. if he did know about it, then I can't see the Bandit's owner not having a stain on his own personal 'record', much like Vassi has (he's been pretty much ostracized from what I saw on the main forums.)

As a GM on a rival of the Bandits, maybe I have bit more objectivity in agreeing with the Bandits on this one. If a player becomes available, you get him. Maybe BillyVassi should be subject to sanctions/banning if it turns out that he did gut the team against everyone's will, and maybe CatsPaw *if* it can be conclusively shown that he had a role in planning the whole situation (which I doubt), but, for the team on the whole, it's not their fault or their problem.

Originally posted by joemalaka
Looks like catspaw posted my PM's on the private team forum. I am guessing with this one, because Drifter posted one little line I had in one them.



There is no such thing in the team's private forum. I am guessing that came from a PM between drifter and catspaw.

Originally posted by DaSaintFan
Originally posted by Ballbright


By their own admission the Bandits owner was aware. Billy offered him a high lvl CB for an inactive HB as a solution to some perceived roster deficiencies. If someone, who has a player on your team and is a GM on another PMs you and offers a Cb that you've been wanting for an known inactive HB, and you don't get suspicious you're just dumb.

Suspicious and collusion are two different things Ball.. I just can't see the Bandits owner "knowing" that the whole team was gutted in a short time. I'm not saying the Bandits' owner is totally innocent here, as they got the advantage of a "rotten" situation, but I'm not sure they're "as" guilty as you write. (Now Mr. Valli, on the other hand, no way can i see anyone defending his position in this whole fiasco).


As pointed out before Billy apprised the Bandits owner of what was going on. Both of them knew.

That's why I called for the Bandits to take the high road here. Let the player play out his season with them (for the XP..it isn't the players fault here), and then have the Bandits cut him at first available opportunity (cut not trade). They should also recuse themselves from the playoffs, to show good faith that no gains were made by the ill-gotten players (there was more than one player acquired by the bandits).

My gripe with the Bandits team extends more to the way they are trying to cover this up now, and the way they are treating Joe now. My gripe with the trade lies squarely on the shoulders of the offending parties (Billy and Catspaw).

Originally posted by Ballbright
Originally posted by methomps


Not really, certainly nothing to warrant a post titled "Brisbane Bandits caught up in controversy? Season tarnished? Possible collusion?" If they were colluding, why not trade for the best CB on that team? The gutted team had a lvl 14 CB. It also had plenty of other players who could've had an impact on the team

You say "they" when you should say "we" as you have a player on the Bandits too.

So are you now accusing me of collusion?

Originally posted by Ballbright
I think it is warranted to post this, and I again commend the guy for posting it, knowing he was going to be a victim of character assassination by his teammates. Joe didn't handle it exactly the way I would've, but he did try to do things correctly.

If someone has damning proof of collusion or cheating, and nothing is being done about it, he should point it out.

You don't have damning proof of collusion. You have damning proof of gutting, but that's about it.

Originally posted by HaplosDog
Originally posted by joemalaka

Looks like catspaw posted my PM's on the private team forum. I am guessing with this one, because Drifter posted one little line I had in one them.



There is no such thing in the team's private forum. I am guessing that came from a PM between drifter and catspaw.

Ok...thank you.

Originally posted by DaSaintFan
Originally posted by Ballbright


By their own admission the Bandits owner was aware. Billy offered him a high lvl CB for an inactive HB as a solution to some perceived roster deficiencies. If someone, who has a player on your team and is a GM on another PMs you and offers a Cb that you've been wanting for an known inactive HB, and you don't get suspicious you're just dumb.

Suspicious and collusion are two different things Ball.. I just can't see the Bandits owner "knowing" that the whole team was gutted in a short time. I'm not saying the Bandits' owner is totally innocent here, as they got the advantage of a "rotten" situation, but I'm not sure they're "as" guilty as you write. (Now Mr. Valli, on the other hand, no way can i see anyone defending his position in this whole fiasco).


Not true, actually. Tacit collusion is still collusion. Whether or not it even matters is what's really up for debate.

By the way you are stating it, BillyVassi was in collusion with EVERY team he traded with. The only way I would buy into the collusion charge is if two things happened:

* BillyVassi blew up the team for the purpose of releasing all the players to free them up for the trade
* The only players who made it onto the Bandits were ones who were upgrades to the Bandit's roster while all the players who wouldn't be upgrades were traded to other teams. If even one player capable of helping out the Bandits made it to a different team, it doesn't look suspicious to me.

Gutting teams and fire sales are ugly, but if a team owner sees a team that is doing it, they would be negligent to their team and all the people with players on their team if they *DON'T* try to take advantage of it. So unless the two conditions I've stated were met, I'd chalk it up to coincidence. Now, if you want to say they should have been more careful about it because of the appearance of inpropriety, that's probably true. But that's not worth sanctioning, suspending or banning anyone.

After catspaw banned you from the forum and I PMed him to ask him to unban you, he said it was because the last player that there was drama with gave our gameplan away to our opponent. That is why you were banned from the forum.

..and by the way Joe, the team I own isn't a very good one currently, but we're building, and if the Bandits cut you at the end of the season, I'd love to have a guy of your character on my squad...

Originally posted by BradyFTW
As a GM on a rival of the Bandits, maybe I have bit more objectivity in agreeing with the Bandits on this one. If a player becomes available, you get him. Maybe BillyVassi should be subject to sanctions/banning if it turns out that he did gut the team against everyone's will, and maybe CatsPaw *if* it can be conclusively shown that he had a role in planning the whole situation (which I doubt), but, for the team on the whole, it's not their fault or their problem.


+1

Originally posted by methomps

So are you now accusing me of collusion?
No, absolutely not, I am saying you need to identify yourself with your team when making points rather than distancing yourself, making you look neutral by using the incorrect pronoun.

Originally posted by methomps

You don't have damning proof of collusion. You have damning proof of gutting, but that's about it.

No, if you read through the thread, Billy and Catspaw gave themselves up more than once

Originally posted by billyvassi
After catspaw banned you from the forum and I PMed him to ask him to unban you, he said it was because the last player that there was drama with gave our gameplan away to our opponent. That is why you were banned from the forum.

And why was I put to special teams only before he even PM'ed me? I PM'ed him after the ban asking why..no attacks, nothing. I didn't care about the banning, just thought it was weird. The benching immediately is what got my blood going...and was quite strange.