Warrior General Games

Well, I'll admit that when I first read through the details of this idea I was a bit frightened and confused, I even started reaching for my pitchfork. I hesistated though, and picked the most generic LB template and took a look at what it actually meant to my dot. Here are my notes in case they might bring any relief or encouragement to people that could be skeptical about this idea; they're a bit sloppy because it's just what I pounded out in notepad.


Current LB status
Majors: Strength, Tackling, Agility, Stamina, Vision, Confidence
Minors: Speed, Blocking, Jumping, Catching


Vs.
Majors: Agility Speed Tackling Vision
Minors: Confidence, Jumping, Stamina, Strength

Level 36 currently, so..

Level 37 gains of..

Majors Case 1: (+.19) then 38-70 of (+.14)
Minors Case 1: (+.14) then 38-70 of (+.11)

Strength, Tackling, Agility, Stamina, Vision, Confidence: cap * 4.67
Speed, Blocking, Jumping, Catching: cap * 3.66

Majors Case 2: (+.28) then 38-70 of (+.21)
Minors Case 2: Same

Agility, Speed, Tackling, Vision: cap * 7
Confidence, Jumping, Stamina, Strength: cap * 3.66


Breakdown of all attributes of note:
FORMAT -- Stat: (+/- difference from status quo)
NOTE: I'm factoring the cap out of this, since it will be a constant for anyone in the middle of a build...

Strength: (-1.01)
Speed: (+3.34)
Agility: (+2.33)
Jumping: (=)
Stamina: (-1.01)
Vision: (+2.33)
Confidence: (-1.01)
Tackling: (+2.33)
Catching: (=)
Blocking: (-3.66)

Just by this template, the most vanilla one I could choose, my linebacker stands to gain multiple points in SPEED, AGILITY, VISION and TACKLING, with MINOR losses in strength, stamina and confidence and a SIGNIFICANT LOSS ONLY IN BLOCKING. BLOCKING. This is great!

The argument that allowing people more flexibility is going to ensure less variety in builds is kind've blowing my mind tbh. There very well could be some growing pains with SAs, particularly with this concept of everyone gets to pick an SA, but I really don't underestimate the developer's ability to nerf an SA if it becomes very dominant. We'll just have a 'SA reset point' button next to our VA reset point buttons. Whatever, I don't mind the experimenting.

Wider flexibility in builds results in a wider possibility of builds and specializations. As someone who enjoys build-planning, I gotta say this seems like a plus. It is illogical to say that adding a variety of specialized templates where a general template was before is going to reduce the variety of dots produced, and subsequently the offensive and defensive schemes that teams can employ more effectively.

+1

Originally posted by drake262 DTD
Ya, but I got it last night.

i got it earlier today

sup

Originally posted by CGR1
DE's are the exception here. Run stuffers on base defense and pash rushers on passing downs is very common in the NFL and needs to be added.

Can't though due to the structure of GLB. In real life teams don't risk the cohesion of an offensive line to put pass block specialists in. In GLB if you give the ability to force DE's on 3rd and long, you need to give that same ability for force OTs on 3rd and long, which is lolsupergay.

Originally posted by MC_Hammer
So you are ok with your worst CB potentially playing man on the opponent's best WR? I can't follow your logic there tbh.
As far as #3, I don't mean you have to put ALL of those positions in for the power HB, but at least have the OPTION to.

you actually have a decent amount of flexibility in this specific area right now (CB depth chart) if you use the DPC. It's not perfect, but if you use CB1, CB2, CB3, etc you can set up whatever matchup you want for the CBs that are on the field for that play.

For example, on one of my teams CB3 never covers the slot receiver.

Originally posted by Deathblade
i got it earlier today

sup

O SHI-

Love it but is there any reason why the Special Teams archetype is limited to only a few positions? I would like to see it available for all positions, especially WR. Kasim Osgood is a WR in the NFL and a 3 time Pro Bowl selection for his Special Teams role... let's not segregate!

Originally posted by MV Thunder
Originally posted by czman

Originally posted by Catch22


That I suck at customer service apparently

Why are you doing customer service anyway? You have an incredible amount of testing to do if these changes are going to go live next off-season.

Cant please some of the people all the time,Cant please all of the people some of the time

I believe Abraham Lincoln said that. I"If I can be in your dream, I'll let you be in mine," I said that

[x] hopes somebody gets the reference.

It give's more diversity in theory, but in all likelihood it isn't going to change much of anything except that algorithms will be less retarded. Which could've been done just by fixing them.

Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by Octowned

Any thought to spreading the influence of casual style leagues, but using archtype based AIs?

Basically make the AI simpler... Pre-set packages called long pass, medium pass, short run, etc., the obvious stuff, then use basic settings to work the AI from there, with the understanding that the AI will use your packages as the backbone.

The playbook selections could be used by selecting RB: (drop down for archtypes on your team). So this medium-styled OC system would allow specialized play calling, etc., without the burden of massive AI structures. Sounds like a much more user friendly but still flexible environment.

I think cookie-cutter shelled AIs are the way to go. Allow quarter or down specific basic %s, a few basic package selections, and incorporate archtypes smartly.

On the defensive side, allow customization of defensive plays and packages, and keep the "tag the archtype" concept, but again force plays into specific packages.

Sounds genius to me.

One of my projects is to create an intermediate league, something that is between casual and the current regular leagues - it's a lot like what you outlined above.

I'd love to see the current regular leagues make small moves towards a easier gameplanning as well, such as the cookie-cutter 1st, 2nd/short/med/long etc type situations stapled into the main AI. Obviously a lot to adjust to based on stuff like Big Heart etc, but if balanced correctly(may need to change some VA's) you could have check options opening up -14 until -6 or less etc..basically make a lot of the down late type VA's work under the same type of circumstances and you can cookie cutter the AI making the scouting future for the basic cookie cutter AI much better as well. I worded most of this terribly, but I think you'll catch my drift and wonder what your thoughts are on this Hazy.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
which is lolsupergay.

no

u

Originally posted by TrevJo
Wow, where do I start with this reckless overkill? How about:

Things that I find unbelievable
QBs actually had Carrying removed as a minor. Do you have any idea how good of a grip on the ball NFL QBs have to hang on during those blindside sacks?
Scrambling QBs have a penalty to turn the shoulder? How do you think Donovan McNabb starts half of his scrambles?
WRs still don't have blocking as a minor, and possession archetype WRs don't even have strength. WHAT. THE. F***.
HBs now don't have blocking as a minor either? If I had a dollar for every time some announcer said, "The key to any young running back getting on the field is his pass blocking," I'd be a rich man.
Possession WRs get half the ALGs of Speed, weigh 20 pounds more, and get a penalty to First Step? Do they at least get to start 5 yards past the line of scrimmage? My God.
FB Scat Backs don't even have blocking as a minor, wow. Why bother? Tag that bitch and he is useless.
Combo TEs have to be 250 lbs minimum? Tony Gonzalez weighs 2 43.
No balanced OL? What's so bad about well-rounded players?
Speed DL with a bonus to Swat Ball and Strength DL with a penalty? It's the big power guys that knock down passes, because they're bull-rushing and then getting their hands in the air at the last second. Speed DEs are down low trying to turn the corner or spin back inside.
Blitzing LBs have strength as a minor? Good call, Demarcus Ware and James Harrison are real pussies. Oh and they will probably be in the 2012 Olympics for the high jump, apparently. Because that's what blitzing LBs do, they jump really high a lot.
Zone Specialist DBs have a bonus to Super Vision, yet pump fakes for some reason in GLB (for whatever reason) have way more effect on man coverage than zone. lol
Zone Specialist DBs trade Jumping for Tackling. Let's hope QBs don't figure out to throw over their heads in those zones.
No balanced K/P? Same comments as for OL.
No special teams WRs? Do you guys realize WRs play a big role in coverage units at every level of football? And why on earth do WRs still cost 300 flex?

Don't get me wrong, I think the general idea of archetypes is good. But I felt that the original distribution of ALGs was bad, and it's still bad. Archetype the SAs and make height/weight more flexible, don't archetype the ALGs, imo. At least the old ALGs forced people to invest something into realistic skills that weren't as sexy. Now they'll just completely ignore football fundamentals at their whim. I feel sorry for the Coach class, these prima donnas are going to be a nightmare to babysit.

Also a question, sorry if this has been answered already, I've only read through page 13. What happens to your Penalty SA if you have 0 in it. Does it count as -2?

I read this post...

To further my opinion on the need for custom slots for DE positions, I'll add that this would be a very good way to avoid having everyone create the run stuffing DE's. Think about it, from level 1 to maybe level 30, most teams are VERY run oriented. What are the odds that any team is going to decide they want to utilize only pass rushing DE's (even if on only 1 side). This would cause a premium to be put on run stuffing DE free agents and therefore kill the market for Pass rushers. By adding custom slots, you give the DC the ability to not only utilize run stuffers on early downs, but also pass rushers on passing downs. I would think this would level the free agency playing field and work to promote the use of alternate archtype builds.

Originally posted by cowtesticles2001
I read this post...

calling bullshit

Originally posted by TrevJo
Wow, where do I start with this reckless overkill? How about:

Things that I find unbelievable
QBs actually had Carrying removed as a minor. Do you have any idea how good of a grip on the ball NFL QBs have to hang on during those blindside sacks?
Scrambling QBs have a penalty to turn the shoulder? How do you think Donovan McNabb starts half of his scrambles?
WRs still don't have blocking as a minor, and possession archetype WRs don't even have strength. WHAT. THE. F***.
HBs now don't have blocking as a minor either? If I had a dollar for every time some announcer said, "The key to any young running back getting on the field is his pass blocking," I'd be a rich man.
Possession WRs get half the ALGs of Speed, weigh 20 pounds more, and get a penalty to First Step? Do they at least get to start 5 yards past the line of scrimmage? My God.
FB Scat Backs don't even have blocking as a minor, wow. Why bother? Tag that bitch and he is useless.
Combo TEs have to be 250 lbs minimum? Tony Gonzalez weighs 2 43.
No balanced OL? What's so bad about well-rounded players?
Speed DL with a bonus to Swat Ball and Strength DL with a penalty? It's the big power guys that knock down passes, because they're bull-rushing and then getting their hands in the air at the last second. Speed DEs are down low trying to turn the corner or spin back inside.
Blitzing LBs have strength as a minor? Good call, Demarcus Ware and James Harrison are real pussies. Oh and they will probably be in the 2012 Olympics for the high jump, apparently. Because that's what blitzing LBs do, they jump really high a lot.
Zone Specialist DBs have a bonus to Super Vision, yet pump fakes for some reason in GLB (for whatever reason) have way more effect on man coverage than zone. lol
Zone Specialist DBs trade Jumping for Tackling. Let's hope QBs don't figure out to throw over their heads in those zones.
No balanced K/P? Same comments as for OL.
No special teams WRs? Do you guys realize WRs play a big role in coverage units at every level of football? And why on earth do WRs still cost 300 flex?

Don't get me wrong, I think the general idea of archetypes is good. But I felt that the original distribution of ALGs was bad, and it's still bad. Archetype the SAs and make height/weight more flexible, don't archetype the ALGs, imo. At least the old ALGs forced people to invest something into realistic skills that weren't as sexy. Now they'll just completely ignore football fundamentals at their whim. I feel sorry for the Coach class, these prima donnas are going to be a nightmare to babysit.

Also a question, sorry if this has been answered already, I've only read through page 13. What happens to your Penalty SA if you have 0 in it. Does it count as -2?

Most of those things were addressed in the thread.