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Forum > Goal Line Blitz > Power through, lower the shoulder, and spin. juke and head fake. Which of these are still kicking butt?
Originally posted by Mike Rogers
"Between the Tackles" is defined as an X to X point area, along the Line of Scrimmage, and in that replay the HB just passes through the outside edge of that area allowing Surge to fire.
so does the x to x change for each play? or is there a default setting that says x to x is from here to here and is the same for each play.
Not sure about you guys but between the tackle means just that to me. And out side is outside.
"Between the Tackles" is defined as an X to X point area, along the Line of Scrimmage, and in that replay the HB just passes through the outside edge of that area allowing Surge to fire.
so does the x to x change for each play? or is there a default setting that says x to x is from here to here and is the same for each play.
Not sure about you guys but between the tackle means just that to me. And out side is outside.
Edited by joe on Feb 13, 2013 11:10:58
Edited by joe on Feb 13, 2013 11:10:40
Originally posted by joe
so does the x to x change for each play? or is there a default setting that says x to x is from here to here and is the same for each play.
Not sure about you guys but between the tackle means just that to me. And out side is outside.
It's probably a set area on the field. I don't think plays switch by hashes. It's one thing to say as a human that between the tackles means between the tackles. It's a very different thing to tell a computer what that means in a practical way.
so does the x to x change for each play? or is there a default setting that says x to x is from here to here and is the same for each play.
Not sure about you guys but between the tackle means just that to me. And out side is outside.
It's probably a set area on the field. I don't think plays switch by hashes. It's one thing to say as a human that between the tackles means between the tackles. It's a very different thing to tell a computer what that means in a practical way.
Originally posted by Robbnva
I am sure you are aware that maximum speed is something completely different than maximum velocity and as bort has said First Step improves maximum velocity not maximum speed.
Speed refers to how fast an object is moving.
Velocity refers to the measurement of the speed of an object that is moving in a specific direction.
First Step increases a player's velocity cause he can cover the same distance in a shorter time.
If you watch any replay of Surge when it fires, the dot definitely moves faster than he normally would, which means his velocity has increased probably higher than his normal max which is very similar to what a dot does with first step
so in conclusion I will certainly ask Bort at the next Q&A but since the evidence shows that a dot's velocity increases when surge fires, surge most likely allows a dot to go past his maximum velocity.
Good day sir.
??? Speed is the scalar quantity of velocity which is a vector. So if your speed is 3 m/s your velocity depends on the reference point. For example it could be negative, however the quantity itself will always be 3, the absolute value. But they are the same number. It's just that velocity has an additional component that is the direction because it is a vector. What you are saying above does not make any sense to me. Edit: If a player, for example, is running towards the line of scrimmage from point a to point b his speed and velocity are the same quantity. The only time the distinction between the two would be relavent is if you were comparing 2 players taking different angles in which case the comparison would be pointless anyway.
Second, the idea that outside running is "better" than inside running is very subjective. Inside running is more consistent whereas outside running is higher risk, higher reward. So perhaps you can run inside 15 times and average 3.5 ypc consistently or you can run outside 15 times and average 8 ypc but it's because you broke an 80 yd run and then had 8-9 out of your remaining outside rushes go for -2 to 2 yds. I know many OCs who would prefer the consistent 3.5 ypc and if I saw the stat lines with all else being about equal I would guess that the team with the consistent 3.5 ypc average won and perhaps handily. Football is very situational and while big plays are definitely important, consistency is probably even more important. If you run outside 2 times in a row for 2 yds now it's 3rd and 8. If you run inside 2 times in a row for 7 yds now it's 3rd and 3. Sure you're going to get that one huge run for 80 yds and a score but you're also likely going to have 5-6 drives stall out due to -2 to 2 yd runs. The consistent 3.5 ypc back team is going to sustain drives all game long and probably win pretty big.
That in my opinion is why you cannot just plug in a ypc to determine that running outside is "better" than running inside.
I am sure you are aware that maximum speed is something completely different than maximum velocity and as bort has said First Step improves maximum velocity not maximum speed.
Speed refers to how fast an object is moving.
Velocity refers to the measurement of the speed of an object that is moving in a specific direction.
First Step increases a player's velocity cause he can cover the same distance in a shorter time.
If you watch any replay of Surge when it fires, the dot definitely moves faster than he normally would, which means his velocity has increased probably higher than his normal max which is very similar to what a dot does with first step
so in conclusion I will certainly ask Bort at the next Q&A but since the evidence shows that a dot's velocity increases when surge fires, surge most likely allows a dot to go past his maximum velocity.
Good day sir.
??? Speed is the scalar quantity of velocity which is a vector. So if your speed is 3 m/s your velocity depends on the reference point. For example it could be negative, however the quantity itself will always be 3, the absolute value. But they are the same number. It's just that velocity has an additional component that is the direction because it is a vector. What you are saying above does not make any sense to me. Edit: If a player, for example, is running towards the line of scrimmage from point a to point b his speed and velocity are the same quantity. The only time the distinction between the two would be relavent is if you were comparing 2 players taking different angles in which case the comparison would be pointless anyway.
Second, the idea that outside running is "better" than inside running is very subjective. Inside running is more consistent whereas outside running is higher risk, higher reward. So perhaps you can run inside 15 times and average 3.5 ypc consistently or you can run outside 15 times and average 8 ypc but it's because you broke an 80 yd run and then had 8-9 out of your remaining outside rushes go for -2 to 2 yds. I know many OCs who would prefer the consistent 3.5 ypc and if I saw the stat lines with all else being about equal I would guess that the team with the consistent 3.5 ypc average won and perhaps handily. Football is very situational and while big plays are definitely important, consistency is probably even more important. If you run outside 2 times in a row for 2 yds now it's 3rd and 8. If you run inside 2 times in a row for 7 yds now it's 3rd and 3. Sure you're going to get that one huge run for 80 yds and a score but you're also likely going to have 5-6 drives stall out due to -2 to 2 yd runs. The consistent 3.5 ypc back team is going to sustain drives all game long and probably win pretty big.
That in my opinion is why you cannot just plug in a ypc to determine that running outside is "better" than running inside.
Edited by tpaterniti on Feb 13, 2013 13:37:46
BTW there's also this property called acceleration which is change in velocity per unit time (i.e. how quickly their velocity increases) which is probably what both SAs deal with. Maybe this could explain why players exceed their top speed, if in fact they do. If Bort programmed FS as an acceleration boost then maybe if you add enough of it you accelerate beyond the speed you would normally go. For example your top speed is 3 m/s and your max acceleration is 1 m/s/s based on your attributes but FS adds a 0.2 m/s/s boost per level. So when you have 12 your acceleration is now 3.2 (from FS) + 1 (from attributes) m/s/s = 4.2 m/s/s and thus in that second when it fires you accelerate at 4.2/s/s to 4.2 m/s which is faster than your max speed based on your attributes. It's a simple example but you get the idea.
Edited by tpaterniti on Feb 13, 2013 13:54:25
Robbnva
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Originally posted by tpaterniti
BTW there's also this property called acceleration which is change in velocity per unit time (i.e. how quickly their velocity increases) which is probably what both SAs deal with.
Well yeah both boost acceleration according to their description.
BTW there's also this property called acceleration which is change in velocity per unit time (i.e. how quickly their velocity increases) which is probably what both SAs deal with.
Well yeah both boost acceleration according to their description.
whodey08
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Originally posted by Robbnva
Well yeah both boost acceleration according to their description.
Right....surge just isnt worth it though. Oh crap....did we just do a full circle here
Well yeah both boost acceleration according to their description.
Right....surge just isnt worth it though. Oh crap....did we just do a full circle here
Homage
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Originally posted by Robbnva
Bolick says a dot with FS exceeds his natural speed. How would one verify that?
it's been stated multiple times by bort
u dum?
Bolick says a dot with FS exceeds his natural speed. How would one verify that?
it's been stated multiple times by bort
u dum?
whodey08
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Originally posted by tpaterniti
The consistent 3.5 ypc back team is going to sustain drives all game long and probably win pretty big.
That in my opinion is why you cannot just plug in a ypc to determine that running outside is "better" than running inside.
Not saying they are not out there.....but I have yet to see a team who can run 3.5yds average against equal opponents with inside running. Hell....one of your examples was against a 3 man front where Surge activated and still only got 1 yd
I do believe Bort/Catch are making sure the whole slam exploit NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN
The consistent 3.5 ypc back team is going to sustain drives all game long and probably win pretty big.
That in my opinion is why you cannot just plug in a ypc to determine that running outside is "better" than running inside.
Not saying they are not out there.....but I have yet to see a team who can run 3.5yds average against equal opponents with inside running. Hell....one of your examples was against a 3 man front where Surge activated and still only got 1 yd
I do believe Bort/Catch are making sure the whole slam exploit NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN
Edited by whodey08 on Feb 13, 2013 14:00:50
One of my examples out of 15. But this thread has become a P&R type discussion. No one is going to change their minds anyway so not much of a discussion.
Saris
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Originally posted by Robbnva
Link?
It's in the changelog (June 13, 2009.):
- First Step has been updated to not only improve acceleration as it normally does, but it actually increases max velocity briefly when it goes off. This allows those with very high agility to still see some benefit from the skill.
Link?
It's in the changelog (June 13, 2009.):
- First Step has been updated to not only improve acceleration as it normally does, but it actually increases max velocity briefly when it goes off. This allows those with very high agility to still see some benefit from the skill.
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