Warrior General Games

Originally posted by haole
Originally posted by pottsman


It needs OOPs changed, since currently they decimate playing on the wrong side of the ball.

Really, Iron Man with just a roster size change would be fun for maybe three games.

Has this been tested and verified? This idea gained a large part of its support from people who weren't asking for any OOP change at all. We considered it all part of the strategy for building an Iron Man team.

Which brings me to the next point:

Originally posted by pottsman


It needs players to COMPLETELY change their builds, though ideally it would actually involve new player classes.

Build strategies? Yes. Builds? No.

We only wanted this as a startup league with newly created players and given a chance to grow. We don't want established, built players to change anything, nor do we want them to be able to come into a new league and crush it in its infancy.

Just wanted to clarify those two points


Exactly.

Originally posted by Jed
Because Bort said "not now, too many things wrong with it, maybe later."

I assume someone conveyed what the "too many things wrong" were to work out?

The only thing that I'm aware of that's "wrong" with it is fixing the coding to allow for smaller roster sizes

The numerous other things listed as being "wrong" with the idea are not things that we think need to be fixed unless someone can state empirically that they need to be fixed: for specifics, see above post by me

Originally posted by pottsman
FIX THE SIM!

Just to clarify, again, nobody is saying we would rather have this idea installed instead of fixes to the sim. That is why we tried to make the idea as simple as possible, needing only one change:

Limit roster size to 15 players

It turns out this change isn't as simple as it sounds. C'est la vie.

Yes, it would also take time to set up a new league for Iron Man players only, but it would also take time to make sure we've recruited enough owners to fill out a league or two.

But all those other changes people are ascribing to this idea are not changes that we feel need to be made, specifically changes to the OOPs. We consider that part of the strategy and challenge of the Iron Man League that makes it so interesting to us.

Why does it say "moved:" now in front of the thread title?

how come it got like duplicated in epic and this thread

Originally posted by pauldabamf
Why does it say "moved:" now in front of the thread title?

It doesn't 0_o

It does in the Epic forum

Since none of this was addressed and this idea is already being relegated to the back pages in the main suggestions forum:

Originally posted by pottsman
It needs roster size limits.
Yep

Originally posted by pottsman
It needs its own leagues.
Definitely

Originally posted by pottsman
It needs players to COMPLETELY change their builds, though ideally it would actually involve new player classes.
Completely incorrect.

Would new Iron Man players have to revisit and change their build strategies? Yes, of course. But would anyone have to change an existing build in any way, shape or form? Not a chance.

We only wanted this as a startup league with newly created players and given a chance to grow. We don't want established, built players to change anything, nor do we want them to be able to come into a new league and crush it in its infancy.

Originally posted by pottsman
It needs OOPs changed, since currently they decimate playing on the wrong side of the ball.

And the evidence of that is ... ? We've been asking all along for anyone to please run an iron man league test on a simulator before saying that it could not work without changes to the OOPs.

And in fact, this idea gained a large part of its support from people who weren't asking for any OOP change at all. We considered it all part of the strategy for building an Iron Man team.

Originally posted by pottsman
Really, Iron Man with just a roster size change would be fun for maybe three games.

And, again, the evidence of that is ... ? Has it been tested? Has this statement been verified? Was the simulation run for five or six seasons to see if it becomes fun when the builds start to round out?

This statement is just silly because ALL newly created players are fun to watch for about three games before you realize they have a long, long way to go before they're useful in any way.

These are the reasons listed as for why this idea requires too much work to be implemented at any time in the near future. Unfortunately, half those reasons are incorrect and include a ludicrous qualifying statement at the end that offers zero supporting evidence.

I appreciate that Bort and company took a few minutes to consider this idea. But I don't think it was ever actually considered, or else we would have answers to those questions. And I think it does a disservice to the customer base who have supported this idea over many months since it was first introduced to falsely pretend that it was ever really considered.

Originally posted by haole
Since none of this was addressed and this idea is already being relegated to the back pages in the main suggestions forum:

Originally posted by pottsman

It needs roster size limits.
Yep

Originally posted by pottsman

It needs its own leagues.
Definitely

Originally posted by pottsman

It needs players to COMPLETELY change their builds, though ideally it would actually involve new player classes.
Completely incorrect.

Would new Iron Man players have to revisit and change their build strategies? Yes, of course. But would anyone have to change an existing build in any way, shape or form? Not a chance.

We only wanted this as a startup league with newly created players and given a chance to grow. We don't want established, built players to change anything, nor do we want them to be able to come into a new league and crush it in its infancy.

Originally posted by pottsman

It needs OOPs changed, since currently they decimate playing on the wrong side of the ball.

And the evidence of that is ... ? We've been asking all along for anyone to please run an iron man league test on a simulator before saying that it could not work without changes to the OOPs.

And in fact, this idea gained a large part of its support from people who weren't asking for any OOP change at all. We considered it all part of the strategy for building an Iron Man team.

Originally posted by pottsman

Really, Iron Man with just a roster size change would be fun for maybe three games.

And, again, the evidence of that is ... ? Has it been tested? Has this statement been verified? Was the simulation run for five or six seasons to see if it becomes fun when the builds start to round out?

This statement is just silly because ALL newly created players are fun to watch for about three games before you realize they have a long, long way to go before they're useful in any way.

These are the reasons listed as for why this idea requires too much work to be implemented at any time in the near future. Unfortunately, half those reasons are incorrect and include a ludicrous qualifying statement at the end that offers zero supporting evidence.

I appreciate that Bort and company took a few minutes to consider this idea. But I don't think it was ever actually considered, or else we would have answers to those questions. And I think it does a disservice to the customer base who have supported this idea over many months since it was first introduced to falsely pretend that it was ever really considered.





Well said!

^ Agreed 102%

die thread...........

Originally posted by We_Rule
die thread...........

Yes please. I simply don't have the energy to argue against this again. This idea was fine when it was in EPIC, out of sight, out of mind. Now, I got to watch the OP defend the same points all over again, despite the fact that so many different people want less OOP.

Asking for a completely different style of play, with no changes other than roster size, is asking for a buggy product and 12 more seasons of nerfing. No thanks. I like the idea of the league, but it needs more than just roster size limits changed from what we already have.

Originally posted by supgreg


Asking for a completely different style of play, with no changes other than roster size, is asking for a buggy product and 12 more seasons of nerfing. No thanks. I like the idea of the league, but it needs more than just roster size limits changed from what we already have.

Then you won't be required to field a team or players for the new style of league. We're purposely trying to keep the programming requirements to the bare minimum (roster size only) for the new league. To ask for anything else kills the idea because it infringes on the already limited programming time available for Bort.

Originally posted by supgreg
Yes please. I simply don't have the energy to argue against this again. This idea was fine when it was in EPIC, out of sight, out of mind. Now, I got to watch the OP defend the same points all over again, despite the fact that so many different people want less OOP.

Asking for a completely different style of play, with no changes other than roster size, is asking for a buggy product and 12 more seasons of nerfing. No thanks. I like the idea of the league, but it needs more than just roster size limits changed from what we already have.

All I'm really asking for is that it be tested on the simulator before assuming that it needs OOP changes. Obviously it would be foolish to start a league like this without testing it first.