Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jdbolick

Is that actually happening, though? I haven't done an exhaustive study or anything, but when we looked at some of tpat's examples on his HB there didn't seem to be much difference in yardage gained.

There are a lot of different plays in which it is quite valuable and yes it is happening. JT had about 3-4 replays from one of his games just the other day that he showed me where Surge effectively probably netted him 20+ more yards of rushing and much more manageable 2nd or 3rd downs.

I don't want to be your guys deciding factor or anything when you are building your guys...if you don't like it by all means don't take it as it just makes us all that much better.

Originally posted by bhall43
JT had about 3-4 replays from one of his games just the other day that he showed me where Surge effectively probably netted him 20+ more yards of rushing
I really doubt that. But it's not like the other "new" SAs are any better. Aside from Catch Fake, they all seem to have pretty limited usefulness.

Originally posted by jdbolick

I really doubt that. But it's not like the other "new" SAs are any better. Aside from Catch Fake, they all seem to have pretty limited usefulness.


I don't doubt it because gap plays don't generally produce like they should unless you get that extra zing through. Surge provides exactly that type of zing you need to make those plays effective.

*shrug* The replays I have seen lead me to disagree. Even with the extra acceleration from Surge, those inside runs are often tackled after a 3-4 yard gain.

Well, when Dildozer starts to decline, I will switch Surge to Hurdle and see how terribad/effinamazin he gets. As far as Im concerned the acceleration boost really doesnt occur, therefore no yards can really be gained from it. Even when it does fire with speed, it usually launches him near an olineman and within tackle radius of a defender and he gets tackled, when he may have been able to find a better line around peeps and bust it out for a longer run.

Originally posted by TheGreatAus
Only if its an almost stop on the bt. (EDIT: if you dont have the speed animation script on greasemonkey, the below stuff will be hard to parse through)

Heres a few of my HB's replays:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2285644&pbp_id=7076252 - if you have the animation script, surge fires and he actually gets slower after the surge
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2285644&pbp_id=7076272 - surge activates, but he gets slower again.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2285644&pbp_id=7076317 - surge activates and he actually got a tad faster, probably the best case scenario, but he has to break a tackle immediately after, so he slows down (not by fault of surge)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2285621&pbp_id=6740773 - surge fires, but he slows down immediately after. Whatever he gets near the end of the play is way better than surge.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2285621&pbp_id=6741492 - surge fires, gets him good speed, but he slows down because he probably actually runs past his blockers because of it and gets tackled.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2285621&pbp_id=6743264 - similar to the play above, he probably could have could left, but surge fires him into the filled hole (not saying he would have cut left, but he has in the past, seems like surge doesnt even leave the option)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2285621&pbp_id=6743387 - primo case of surge firing and him slowing down IMMEDIATELY when it fires. Again, i think he slows down because the SA is trying to shoot him where he doesnt want to go
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2285621&pbp_id=6743533 - another play where surge doesnt appear to really do anything.

So, 2/8 plays, Surge gave a tangible speed bonus. Even then, its questionable as to whether or not the speed bonus is even worth it since it might put him in a bad situation (like sleeping with that nasty girl who looks good because of beer goggles). Is there a way to get a refund of the SP's i put into it? Maybe switch to hurdle??? Please???

I honestly can't understand why you keep griping about the slow down thing as every replay you mention of a slow down your HB is either met with a defender (thus a slowdown ldo) or he is making a cut.

Originally posted by bhall43
I honestly can't understand why you keep griping about the slow down thing as every replay you mention of a slow down your HB is either met with a defender (thus a slowdown ldo) or he is making a cut.
That's why I'm skeptical about Surge's usefulness. The cases where an inside run doesn't get slowed down from a tackle attempt of cut seem to be so rare that I wonder how much the burst really affected. I don't know if there's an easy way to fix that because you don't want inside runs to be crazy overpowered. If you could wave a magic wand, though, it would be nice if inside runs had a similar if lesser range of outcomes as outside runs (i.e. -2, 0, 2, 10). Instead they're (5, 3, 3, 4).

Originally posted by jdbolick

That's why I'm skeptical about Surge's usefulness. The cases where an inside run doesn't get slowed down from a tackle attempt of cut seem to be so rare that I wonder how much the burst really affected. I don't know if there's an easy way to fix that because you don't want inside runs to be crazy overpowered. If you could wave a magic wand, though, it would be nice if inside runs had a similar if lesser range of outcomes as outside runs (i.e. -2, 0, 2, 10). Instead they're (5, 3, 3, 4).

We're on the same page for once. Unless youre being sarcastic. Either way...I think the only fix is to move the activation point a yard back. Shouldnt change the overall utility, but at least an acceleration burst will actually happen. A defender will still be there and the dot will still have to slow...but it might allow him to actually hit the hole with gusto, not just hit the hole THEN have gusto, which is whats happening now.

Originally posted by TheGreatAus
We're on the same page for once. Unless youre being sarcastic. Either way...I think the only fix is to move the activation point a yard back.
No. Your entire argument doesn't even make sense. You point out that when Surge fires it doesn't necessarily help, but you want something that will make Surge fire even more often when it already fires plenty. That does nothing to address the issue of inside runs struggling.

Originally posted by jdbolick

No. Your entire argument doesn't even make sense. You point out that when Surge fires it doesn't necessarily help, but you want something that will make Surge fire even more often when it already fires plenty. That does nothing to address the issue of inside runs struggling.


Thats your point. Feel free to make a thread about it. Oddly enough, this is my whole point, the whole time, which is what Ive said throughout this whole thread:

Originally posted by jdbolick

That's why I'm skeptical about Surge's usefulness. The cases where an inside run doesn't get slowed down from a tackle attempt of cut seem to be so rare that I wonder how much the burst really affected.

But hey, thanks for trying to sum up my whole thread buddy!

Moving back the threshold for Surge wouldn't change that at all, though. The "problem" is how HBs run up the middle on most plays.

I would expect the momentum from surge would allow a dot to get through the first defender, does this happen? I haven't really watched replays so I'm asking.

Originally posted by Robbnva
I would expect the momentum from surge would allow a dot to get through the first defender, does this happen? I haven't really watched replays so I'm asking.

Meh...depends on the defender, like DT vs weak OLB. Sometimes yes. But generally speaking from what Ive seen, there has to be an engaged block that the defender is trying to tackle from, but i generally dont see much momentum from surge at all, so its a moot point really

The momentum from surge gives you about 6-8 on the speed script extra and is generally followed by a break tackle SA immediately after. So I would say it probably helps.

Originally posted by bhall43
The momentum from surge gives you about 6-8 on the speed script extra and is generally followed by a break tackle SA immediately after. So I would say it probably helps.

Too many facts, stop it bhall