Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Robbnva
at a previous Q&A bort implied surge is probably the equivalent to first step.
He didn't say that Surge allows you to go over the maximum speed. Please stop posting until you find something you actually know about.


Originally posted by tpaterniti
Not on inside runs. He averages pretty high on pitches mostly I would say because he can break DB's tackles.
I'm skeptical that he really does average a lot less on inside runs when Surge doesn't fire, but regardless, him being even more effective on outside runs underscores the dubious value of Surge given that there's no requirement to use a certain number of inside runs anyway. If Surge worked inside or outside when untouched at the line of scrimmage, that would be more appealing. As it is, you're only getting a benefit when you're choosing to do something that works less well, and even then we're not sure how much extra value it's actually adding even though it clearly fires a lot.

he didn't say that it doesn't either. He said it's probably the equivalent. That's a vague answer.

and if we are actually being technical here, First step doesn't take a player go over maximum speed, it makes them go over their maximum velocity.

Originally posted by bort
Yes, we did change it a while ago to make it more useful for already fast players. It actually allows a player to move faster than his regular max velocity for a short time when it goes off, since a super high agility player already accelerates quickly. Whether that is valuable to your player or not is up to you to decide.

I am sure you are aware that maximum speed is something completely different than maximum velocity and as bort has said First Step improves maximum velocity not maximum speed.

Speed refers to how fast an object is moving.

Velocity refers to the measurement of the speed of an object that is moving in a specific direction.

First Step increases a player's velocity cause he can cover the same distance in a shorter time.

If you watch any replay of Surge when it fires, the dot definitely moves faster than he normally would, which means his velocity has increased probably higher than his normal max which is very similar to what a dot does with first step

so in conclusion I will certainly ask Bort at the next Q&A but since the evidence shows that a dot's velocity increases when surge fires, surge most likely allows a dot to go past his maximum velocity.

Good day sir.

-_- Come on robbnva, that is being pedantic, for purposes of this discussion, the physical difference of speed and velocity is pointless. It's just a concept. In a single-direction line, which is what people here are thinking of, speed = velocity.

but Speed isn't velocity.

in reality you can't really compare First Step and Surge because they are 2 very different things. it's like comparing apples and oranges.

First Step gives a boost to a dot who is standing still or almost standing still (.1 ft/tick or slower)

Surge gives a boost to a dot who is already moving.

If you think of it like a street race


First step would help a car get off the line faster.

Surge would be the equivalent to Nitrous Oxide, it gives the car a quick burst of speed to pull ahead.

The fact is though that bolick is wrong when he says First step helps a dot go faster than his maximum speed because that's just not true.

technically speaking you can't really go faster than your maximum speed, you can only increase what your maximum speed is.

Originally posted by Robbnva
I am sure you are aware that maximum speed is something completely different than maximum velocity and as bort has said First Step improves maximum velocity not maximum speed.
This is why people make fun of you. You are so desperate to pretend that you know what you're talking about that you try to appear more intelligent than you are, which results in you saying things that make actually intelligent people either laugh at you or do a double-take to make sure you really posted what you did.

Originally posted by
If you watch any replay of Surge when it fires, the dot definitely moves faster than he normally would, which means his velocity has increased probably higher than his normal max which is very similar to what a dot does with first step
Stop it. You said something stupid about Surge and you're letting your defensiveness over being called on that to make you say even more stupid things. Look, I get that you don't have a VA that lets you exceed your intellect, but just work within that limitation instead of trying to exceed it.

Originally posted by Robbnva
in reality you can't really compare First Step and Surge because they are 2 very different things. it's like comparing apples and oranges.
This is the first correct thing you've posted in the whole thread, and the fact that you said this is mind-boggling given that you are the one trying to equate them.

Originally posted by Robbnva
The fact is though that bolick is wrong when he says First step helps a dot go faster than his maximum speed because that's just not true. technically speaking you can't really go faster than your maximum speed, you can only increase what your maximum speed is.
Read this again you colossal moron:
Originally posted by jdbolick

To my knowledge Surge doesn't allow you to go over your natural maximum speed the way First Step does for DEs and such, while HBs already get to maximum speed in pretty short order if they have an open lane.

Now please stop disrupting the thread because you're defensive about the degree of your monstrous stupidity. And don't bother reporting this either, as they removed insults from the forum rules and so I can no longer be banned for calling you what you are.

Originally posted by jdbolick

This is the first correct thing you've posted in the whole thread, and the fact that you said this is mind-boggling given that you are the one trying to equate them.

Read much? Bort did that in a Q&A, I was just pointing it out since it was relevant to the discussion.

Why do you get so angry when someone catches you posting inaccurate Infornation? You posted an outright lie, got caught, and now you are mad bro.

general question to anyone who will answer.

how exactly do you determine the exact benefits of Surge and First step? where is this data at or how can I calculate it myself?

Originally posted by Robbnva
Read much? Bort did that in a Q&A, I was just pointing it out since it was relevant to the discussion.
Bort absolutely did not compare them. He said: "First step is more useful for re-starting motion after a hard cut, where the player slows way down or stops, which can actually be pretty often for some players and plays. Since the player is already moving at the handoff, first step usually doesn't have a chance to go off unless a cut is required. Surge is probably more what you're looking for."

He was saying that First Step wouldn't do what the questioner was looking for, but that Surge might since it was different. And by the way, I'm the one who discovered that First Step wouldn't work for most HB runs because of scripted handoffs and made that knowledge available to the populace, which Bort later confirmed.

Originally posted by
Why do you get so angry when someone catches you posting inaccurate Infornation? You posted an outright lie, got caught, and now you are mad bro.
You're the one who was repeatedly and comically wrong. Because you are so defensive about your uselessness and your inability to follow along with even basic conversation, you're disrupting the thread and arguing nonsense. Again, this is why everyone makes fun of you. When someone else is being absurd, people try to hurt their feelings by comparing them to you.

ok so I see the problem, I used the word equivalent instead of comparable but the point I was making is still the same.

Bort essentially told people that if they want a boost to acceleration similar to what is given from First Step, the SA that is probably the most comparable would be Surge.

Stop posting. You always make this worse for yourself by trying to justify your dumb statements instead of letting them die when someone corrects you.

No I'm not so stop de-railing the thread already.

Originally posted by Robbnva
general question to anyone who will answer.

how exactly do you determine the exact benefits of Surge and First step? where is this data at or how can I calculate it myself?

So it doesn't get glanced over I quoted my question.

Originally posted by Black Peter
Originally posted by Mike Rogers

Surge can fire any time a ball carrier hits the LoS, untouched and is "between the tackles" as defined on that play in sim.

Its not just on designated "inside runs" per GLB playbook.



yes, but it fires outside the tackles as well... http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=2265748&pbp_id=2363246 ...
clearly outside the tackle, no? Happens on lots of off tackle plays.



"Between the Tackles" is defined as an X to X point area, along the Line of Scrimmage, and in that replay the HB just passes through the outside edge of that area allowing Surge to fire.