Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Hagalaz
And I acknowledged the plausibility, and moved on to prove that it is indeed exponential. What's wrong with that?

And that "explanation" on the value of carrying... Does not explain jack shit...

you did no such thing

Originally posted by Hagalaz
And I acknowledged the plausibility, and moved on to prove that it is indeed exponential. What's wrong with that?

And that "explanation" on the value of carrying... Does not explain jack shit...

I have seen no concrete proof that PT increases any of its effectiveness exponentially. The closest thing was the link I gave from Bort, but he neither confirms nor denies it there.

Originally posted by LostPeon
Originally posted by Hagalaz

And I acknowledged the plausibility, and moved on to prove that it is indeed exponential. What's wrong with that?

And that "explanation" on the value of carrying... Does not explain jack shit...

I have seen no concrete proof that PT increases any of its effectiveness exponentially. The closest thing was the link I gave from Bort, but he neither confirms nor denies it there.

he actually said (relating to PT) that more increase the chance it happens and the amount of the bonus

for example
1 = +3% chance it fires and a +3% bonus when you get the roll
2 = +6% chance it fires and a +6% bonus when you get the roll
3 = +9% chance it fires and a +9% bonus when you get the roll
4 = +12% chance it fires and a +12% bonus when you get the roll
5 = +15% chance it fires and a +15% bonus when you get the roll
etc.

I guess that may be what Hags is thinking when he states exponential, but I think most people think of it this way
for example
1 = +1% chance it fires and a +1% bonus when you get the roll
2 = +4% chance it fires and a +4% bonus when you get the roll
3 = +9% chance it fires and a +9% bonus when you get the roll
4 = +16% chance it fires and a +16% bonus when you get the roll
5 = +25% chance it fires and a +25% bonus when you get the roll
etc.

(%'s not real, just the difference in math)

I consider the top example linear and the bottom exponential

Yeah, when he says 'exponential' he is combining the power of the bonus and the increase in the occurrence of it firing.

He is not claiming that on a single tackle attempt that the bonus is exponential, he is claiming that, in the aggregate, the bonus is exponential because of a linear increase in the power and the odds of it firing.

Of course, we know that the bonus from break tackle SAs are not break tackle % increases, they are a flat increase to the break tackle roll. We also know that the SA only shows as having fired when the tackle is broken. The combination of the two will make it seem as though Power Thru is the reason for so many tackles to be broken (which may seem like an exponential increase in broken tackles from the PT SA), but that ignores the fact that many of those tackles could have been broken without the SA, but because the SA fires more often, you are going to see it fire on tackles where it was not needed to break the tackle.

Which goes back to my post that even if you didn't need PT to break the tackle, the animation is helpful because it breaks the tackle more cleanly than breaking it without the SA.

Yup on both accounts.

I'm gonna ask two questions to make sure everyone is on the same page here...

A) Do you agree that more points in PT makes it more likely to fire?
B) Do you agree that more points in PT makes it give a bigger effect when it fires?

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Yup on both accounts.

I'm gonna ask two questions to make sure everyone is on the same page here...

A) Do you agree that more points in PT makes it more likely to fire?
B) Do you agree that more points in PT makes it give a bigger effect when it fires?

Yes but I believe each goes up linearly

Pretty sure its both as well. atleast thats how it looks when you watch it.


either way, add PT to any power back. and Carry>strength for breaking tackles.

Originally posted by reddogrw
Yes but I believe each goes up linearly

Exactly, each goes up linearly. What is the combination function of two linear functions? An exponential

Anyway, happycow, all tests seem to say that strength and carry have similar effects for breaking tackles, why do you state carry > strength for that individual purpose?

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Originally posted by reddogrw

Yes but I believe each goes up linearly

Exactly, each goes up linearly. What is the combination function of two linear functions? An exponential

Anyway, happycow, all tests seem to say that strength and carry have similar effects for breaking tackles, why do you state carry > strength for that individual purpose?

Because I have built and used several of them in my offenses. I have tested both high carry and high strength dots and the ones with more carry do better. Call it what you want.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Yup on both accounts.

I'm gonna ask two questions to make sure everyone is on the same page here...

A) Do you agree that more points in PT makes it more likely to fire?
B) Do you agree that more points in PT makes it give a bigger effect when it fires?

definitely A and i sure hope B. Fires quite a bit with only 4 in it, cant wait to have it go off like crazy when i get 10 in it.

Originally posted by O' HappyCow
Because I have built and used several of them in my offenses. I have tested both high carry and high strength dots and the ones with more carry do better. Call it what you want.

Did you have any SAs to influence the outcome ?

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Originally posted by O' HappyCow

Because I have built and used several of them in my offenses. I have tested both high carry and high strength dots and the ones with more carry do better. Call it what you want.

Did you have any SAs to influence the outcome ?

no, im figured I would base my whole arguement off of just the raw builds.... Of course They were identical builds outside of the differences in carry and strength.

Excellent thanks!

I did the same test, but it was like... 15-20 seasons ago... A lot has changed since then...

I was just curious.....has anyone ever put any thought into whether strength or carrying is more important for a powerback?

Originally posted by O' HappyCow
Because I have built and used several of them in my offenses. I have tested both high carry and high strength dots and the ones with more carry do better. Call it what you want.

I thought I explained this already?

1)

103 strength + 15 VA < 103 carrying + 15 VA

Steady grip is a better VA than Workout Warrior.

2)

Strength affects the break tackle roll and some SAs.

Carrying affects the break tackle roll, not fumble roll, fake roll, and SA activations. It also helps 'avoid' tacklers.