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blurev
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Originally posted by islander1

What I'm not following is why you believe you'll lose the franchise(s).

I know first hand of a person who was a GM, had a 'dead' owner, and through Bort got the team transferred in ownership to him.


I'm going to explain this one more time.

Today is exactly two weeks since Sprovo went inactive, which means GLB Admins now have a right to step in and take the franchises.

It takes anywhere from 24 - 48 hours to get a PM answered.

Though I've been talking to Thorn this week, I've never gotten a direct "we'll leave the teams alone till the end of the season". That means no one has told me about when they would step in to take the franchises.

Rather than wait to see what happens and when it happens, I chose to pull the trigger to start getting agents out of there. Some will get out now, others will get out when the season ends.
 
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Originally posted by blurev
Originally posted by islander1


What I'm not following is why you believe you'll lose the franchise(s).

I know first hand of a person who was a GM, had a 'dead' owner, and through Bort got the team transferred in ownership to him.


I'm going to explain this one more time.

Today is exactly two weeks since Sprovo went inactive, which means GLB Admins now have a right to step in and take the franchises.

It takes anywhere from 24 - 48 hours to get a PM answered.

Though I've been talking to Thorn this week, I've never gotten a direct "we'll leave the teams alone till the end of the season". That means no one has told me about when they would step in to take the franchises.

Rather than wait to see what happens and when it happens, I chose to pull the trigger to start getting agents out of there. Some will get out now, others will get out when the season ends.


Given the fact that this "transition" effects 50-60 human beings directly, I would have thought a more open line of communication should have been established from the admin and staff at GLB.
 
mocfam10
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If this is supposed to be a real world football sim, then the rules should be structured as such. If Jerry Jones decided to sell the Cowboys after week 8 to Mark Cuban, Mark Cuban isn't going to inherit a team with no players. He's going to get the team in its current state. Just as the previous owner left it. I do agree that there should be something for the players to get out of their contracts. But it should be done like the real world.

If a new coach comes into a team, the players continue to play for that coach until the end of the season. Players are tied to the team. In the off season, if the owner doesn't like how the team is structured, he should be able to cut them and bring in his own guys. If players don't want to play, they should be able to ask for a trade or be released. If the owner refuses to let them go, the player should have the right to make his player "Inactive". Meaning, the player voluntarily sits out and would be unavailable via the depth chart. Like a contract holdout. You would be forcing the owner to pay your salary yet he wouldn't get any of your benefit of you being on the field.

Admin, Bort, whoever should then be able to access these holdouts and then force the owner to release you. Either that, or all of the team's money will be drained and will be bankrupt anyway. Which will release you from the team anyway. That's the fair thing to do. I'm sorry, but just because you formed a cross team alliance with an organization has nothing to do with how GLB should be ran. Whether you agree or not, you sign with the team. In GLB's eyes you are tied to the team and the owner of the team. Not some higher "organization". That was something done outside the workings of GLB. If you don't like the new owner, refuse to play for him until he releases you or trades you. If your organization wants you bad enough, they'll come get you.

That's how it should be done. Not gutting it. Or however you want to doll it up.
 
majech
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Originally posted by islander1
Franchises aren't dying if they have a new active owner.

Sounds like a pathetic attempt to justify you gutting two competitive teams to me. Appoint new GMs, work with the GLB staff to get teams transferred, and be done with it.

otherwise, you're 'organization' is no better then anyone else who's gutted a team - for example, 1/3 of USA Pro league.


I agree! Moving players from one team to another for the benefit of one team is wrong, I don't care if they "are part of the same organization" or not. THAT by definition is a farm system.

I wish the mods would just boot all you snakes. Instead the make rules that cause beuracracy and red tape for us owners that are doing things on the up and up. I worry that eventually this game will get so bogged down with rules, that the enjoyment and luster will be gone
 
Jiddy78
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Originally posted by Clinton Esquire



Do you think the new owner even paid for this season? I really don't know - but I KNOW that Sprovo DID PAY FOR THIS ENTIRE SEASON - regardless of whether or not he went inactive, he paid the owner, Bort, of GLB the agreed upon sum to run a team for the entire year - if he chooses to leave the team in the hands of his GM's and watch from afar, that should be his right as a paying customer, yes/no? I see several owners out there with horrible teams that should probably be taken away from them if competition mattered, but they paid to own a team - and they get what they pay for, right?


The man (sprovo) paid for his entire season...but I'm sure he knew the rules of inactivity and the consequences of such when he did so. The new owner has to pay. That's how it works. 1000 flex points to get a team. 400 per to keep it going.

Log in once...for 2 seconds every other week. No problem. If you can't, you are reaping what you sow....reaping what you sow with advance notice no less.
 
Painmaker
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This incident merely highlights the glaring weakness that is GLB's mechanism for transitioning team ownership.

It's a shame that after two weeks of inactivity, without consulting rank-and-file team members, admins would simply intervene to transfer team ownership. No time to start a thread in the team forum to get a sense of what the players want? As far as I know and without exception, the Exiles and Border Jumpers enjoyed playing together and wanted to stay together under the existing conditions of playing time and team atmosphere.

Unfortunately, two weeks is a very short time to communicate with admins who send one cryptic PM every 48 hours or so to a single GM and don't communicate at all with the rest of the team. The reduces "communication" to about 5 exchanges between a single GM and an admin staff who rarely read the PMs accurately the first two times you send them so you waste your time correcting them. An admin who shall remain nameless would probably save himself a lot of time if he just doubled the time spent spent thinking, "my customers aren't automatically idiots, so if I find myself thinking that they are then I might have misread the PM." Compounding the problem, only someone who had been named a GM is eligible to "trump" the list to buy the team, and no one who already owns a team is allowed to buy another - severely limiting the pool of eligible buyers to hold the team together.

The GMs are left watching a trainwreck as team ownership will inevitably change hands to a random GLB player. Their loyalties are to their teammates, so it should be expected that they will work within the rules to help out their teammates at the expense of a random stranger. If some form of behavior isn't desired, then that mandate should be made clear to the community, with options ranging from rules changes to something as simple as a centralized and dynamic "standards of fair play" endorsed by the admin staff. We don't have that yet, so I continue to expect GMs to behave as the USAORG GMs have and do what they can to protect their teammates.

This topic deserves mature discussion and not the childish insults, personal attacks, requests for banning, and the like which have taken up half this thread. Real problems need real solutions.
 
islander1
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Originally posted by majech
Originally posted by islander1

Franchises aren't dying if they have a new active owner.

Sounds like a pathetic attempt to justify you gutting two competitive teams to me. Appoint new GMs, work with the GLB staff to get teams transferred, and be done with it.

otherwise, you're 'organization' is no better then anyone else who's gutted a team - for example, 1/3 of USA Pro league.


I agree! Moving players from one team to another for the benefit of one team is wrong, I don't care if they "are part of the same organization" or not. THAT by definition is a farm system.

I wish the mods would just boot all you snakes. Instead the make rules that cause beuracracy and red tape for us owners that are doing things on the up and up. I worry that eventually this game will get so bogged down with rules, that the enjoyment and luster will be gone


LOL, no one needs booting. That wasn't anything resembling my feelings on the matter.

I'm only suggesting that there is absolutely no justifiable excuse to gut a team. ever.

Giving everyone end of season contracts is a passable solution. Truth be told if I'm on the team wait list and I'm expecting a team soon, I'm already out recruiting my lineup. The Africa team I'm on had literally 2/3 of its roster set by day 2 because of the preliminary efforts of bluepike and prob others.

I have no dislike for USAORG at all. In fact I put my punter in for consideration for one of their teams. I might again this coming offseason.
Last edited Jun 27, 2008 08:07:23
 
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Originally posted by mocfam10
If this is supposed to be a real world football sim, then the rules should be structured as such. If Jerry Jones decided to sell the Cowboys after week 8 to Mark Cuban, Mark Cuban isn't going to inherit a team with no players. He's going to get the team in its current state. Just as the previous owner left it. I do agree that there should be something for the players to get out of their contracts. But it should be done like the real world.

If a new coach comes into a team, the players continue to play for that coach until the end of the season. Players are tied to the team. In the off season, if the owner doesn't like how the team is structured, he should be able to cut them and bring in his own guys. If players don't want to play, they should be able to ask for a trade or be released. If the owner refuses to let them go, the player should have the right to make his player "Inactive". Meaning, the player voluntarily sits out and would be unavailable via the depth chart. Like a contract holdout. You would be forcing the owner to pay your salary yet he wouldn't get any of your benefit of you being on the field.

Admin, Bort, whoever should then be able to access these holdouts and then force the owner to release you. Either that, or all of the team's money will be drained and will be bankrupt anyway. Which will release you from the team anyway. That's the fair thing to do. I'm sorry, but just because you formed a cross team alliance with an organization has nothing to do with how GLB should be ran. Whether you agree or not, you sign with the team. In GLB's eyes you are tied to the team and the owner of the team. Not some higher "organization". That was something done outside the workings of GLB. If you don't like the new owner, refuse to play for him until he releases you or trades you. If your organization wants you bad enough, they'll come get you.

That's how it should be done. Not gutting it. Or however you want to doll it up.


In the real world these people are paid a paycheck to play the game. In this game we are paying to play the game - telling me it's ok for my 10 year contract to get tranferred to some guy who for all I know wants to bring in his own lvl 8 players and send me to the bench for the remainder of my contract... or maybe even just the remainder of the year.

The solution here was easy - in the offseason, ownership will be transferred.

However you want to doll it up I'm a paying customer - and the team I was on paid for the entire season to be played - despite the fact the owner went AWOL, he had the teams in the hands of the GM's, and we should have been allowed to play out the entire season.

Ever dealt with a horrible owner?
 
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Originally posted by majech
Originally posted by islander1

Franchises aren't dying if they have a new active owner.

Sounds like a pathetic attempt to justify you gutting two competitive teams to me. Appoint new GMs, work with the GLB staff to get teams transferred, and be done with it.

otherwise, you're 'organization' is no better then anyone else who's gutted a team - for example, 1/3 of USA Pro league.


I agree! Moving players from one team to another for the benefit of one team is wrong, I don't care if they "are part of the same organization" or not. THAT by definition is a farm system.

I wish the mods would just boot all you snakes. Instead the make rules that cause beuracracy and red tape for us owners that are doing things on the up and up. I worry that eventually this game will get so bogged down with rules, that the enjoyment and luster will be gone


I wish crybabies like you would leave the pacifier in your mouth more often.
 
Jiddy78
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Originally posted by Painmaker
This incident merely highlights the glaring weakness that is GLB's mechanism for transitioning team ownership.

It's a shame that after two weeks of inactivity, without consulting rank-and-file team members, admins would simply intervene to transfer team ownership. No time to start a thread in the team forum to get a sense of what the players want? As far as I know and without exception, the Exiles and Border Jumpers enjoyed playing together and wanted to stay together under the existing conditions of playing time and team atmosphere.

Unfortunately, two weeks is a very short time to communicate with admins who send one cryptic PM every 48 hours or so to a single GM and don't communicate at all with the rest of the team. The reduces "communication" to about 5 exchanges between a single GM and an admin staff who rarely read the PMs accurately the first two times you send them so you waste your time correcting them. An admin who shall remain nameless would probably save himself a lot of time if he just doubled the time spent spent thinking, "my customers aren't automatically idiots, so if I find myself thinking that they are then I might have misread the PM." Compounding the problem, only someone who had been named a GM is eligible to "trump" the list to buy the team, and no one who already owns a team is allowed to buy another - severely limiting the pool of eligible buyers to hold the team together.

The GMs are left watching a trainwreck as team ownership will inevitably change hands to a random GLB player. Their loyalties are to their teammates, so it should be expected that they will work within the rules to help out their teammates at the expense of a random stranger. If some form of behavior isn't desired, then that mandate should be made clear to the community, with options ranging from rules changes to something as simple as a centralized and dynamic "standards of fair play" endorsed by the admin staff. We don't have that yet, so I continue to expect GMs to behave as the USAORG GMs have and do what they can to protect their teammates.

This topic deserves mature discussion and not the childish insults, personal attacks, requests for banning, and the like which have taken up half this thread. Real problems need real solutions.


Finishing off the year then being released seems feasible in midseason issues like this...for the OTHER players that are playing in divisions with the gutted teams. Seasons take on a life of their own in this game...'tis a shame to have them butchered because people hit the panic button. This problem was foreseen by USAORG GM's it appears, so why not restructure contracts to end on day 40 and perhaps give the new guy a chance to make a name for himself, possibly earn the respect of the players over a month?
Last edited Jun 27, 2008 08:11:32
 
Jiddy78
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Originally posted by Clinton Esquire
Originally posted by mocfam10

If this is supposed to be a real world football sim, then the rules should be structured as such. If Jerry Jones decided to sell the Cowboys after week 8 to Mark Cuban, Mark Cuban isn't going to inherit a team with no players. He's going to get the team in its current state. Just as the previous owner left it. I do agree that there should be something for the players to get out of their contracts. But it should be done like the real world.

If a new coach comes into a team, the players continue to play for that coach until the end of the season. Players are tied to the team. In the off season, if the owner doesn't like how the team is structured, he should be able to cut them and bring in his own guys. If players don't want to play, they should be able to ask for a trade or be released. If the owner refuses to let them go, the player should have the right to make his player "Inactive". Meaning, the player voluntarily sits out and would be unavailable via the depth chart. Like a contract holdout. You would be forcing the owner to pay your salary yet he wouldn't get any of your benefit of you being on the field.

Admin, Bort, whoever should then be able to access these holdouts and then force the owner to release you. Either that, or all of the team's money will be drained and will be bankrupt anyway. Which will release you from the team anyway. That's the fair thing to do. I'm sorry, but just because you formed a cross team alliance with an organization has nothing to do with how GLB should be ran. Whether you agree or not, you sign with the team. In GLB's eyes you are tied to the team and the owner of the team. Not some higher "organization". That was something done outside the workings of GLB. If you don't like the new owner, refuse to play for him until he releases you or trades you. If your organization wants you bad enough, they'll come get you.

That's how it should be done. Not gutting it. Or however you want to doll it up.


In the real world these people are paid a paycheck to play the game. In this game we are paying to play the game - telling me it's ok for my 10 year contract to get tranferred to some guy who for all I know wants to bring in his own lvl 8 players and send me to the bench for the remainder of my contract... or maybe even just the remainder of the year.

The solution here was easy - in the offseason, ownership will be transferred.

However you want to doll it up I'm a paying customer - and the team I was on paid for the entire season to be played - despite the fact the owner went AWOL, he had the teams in the hands of the GM's, and we should have been allowed to play out the entire season.

Ever dealt with a horrible owner?


You still have your 10 year contract under your "offseason transfer" arrangement...Why do you keep harping on it?
 
majech
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Originally posted by Clinton Esquire
Originally posted by Joe_B

Originally posted by Clinton Esquire


Originally posted by Joe_B



Originally posted by jrry32




Originally posted by Joe_B





No your just an ass


Yep that's a way to show intelligenc, someone makes a logical arguement and you respond with an insult. Way to go big boy. Go ahead and think that of me, I don't care what you think because this is the internet and I don't know or care who you are.


says the guy who made the first insult. I'm just giving you your own tone back. You can talk to me about "intelligenc" and "logical arguement" when you can learn to spell.


Looking over the first post, "your just an ass," and suggesting that it's time to play the spelling/comprehension card is probably a bad idea... you're just a moron.


Your right. I'm just a moron who doesn't like to see teams in his league get gutted.


You're that alright.

So should a paying customer be forced to eat a meal at a restaurant that he doesn't like or didn't order?

It's one thing to sign up for a bad deal and then fail to remember you signed up for the bad deal in the first place. It's another thing to suggest that when the GLB mods come in and say, "We're giving your team to jackass #32," that we should have to stick out and honor our 10 year contracts which were signed up for under a different set of circumstances.

Even the NCAA allows students to transfer schools when the coach that they signed up under leaves... this isn't much different, is it? And what do you care if the league you were in has a team which is no longer as dominant - that is one less factor you have to worry about.


Your are not very good at analogies. The Chuck Lidell thing? Come on.

They are guttings these teams and shipping as many players to "their" teams as they can. People keep looking at the players, but the players are screwed b/c their ring leader bailed on them. Look at the teams that are in conferences with the teams that are gonna receive the players from these gutted teams. Now, not only are the players on the gutted teams getting screwed, but the owners and players of the teams that now have to compete against the newly stacked teams are getting screwed. This has compounded the problem, not resolved the problem.
 
Link
 
Originally posted by majech
Originally posted by Clinton Esquire

Originally posted by Joe_B


Originally posted by Clinton Esquire



Originally posted by Joe_B




Originally posted by jrry32





Originally posted by Joe_B






No your just an ass


Yep that's a way to show intelligenc, someone makes a logical arguement and you respond with an insult. Way to go big boy. Go ahead and think that of me, I don't care what you think because this is the internet and I don't know or care who you are.


says the guy who made the first insult. I'm just giving you your own tone back. You can talk to me about "intelligenc" and "logical arguement" when you can learn to spell.


Looking over the first post, "your just an ass," and suggesting that it's time to play the spelling/comprehension card is probably a bad idea... you're just a moron.


Your right. I'm just a moron who doesn't like to see teams in his league get gutted.


You're that alright.

So should a paying customer be forced to eat a meal at a restaurant that he doesn't like or didn't order?

It's one thing to sign up for a bad deal and then fail to remember you signed up for the bad deal in the first place. It's another thing to suggest that when the GLB mods come in and say, "We're giving your team to jackass #32," that we should have to stick out and honor our 10 year contracts which were signed up for under a different set of circumstances.

Even the NCAA allows students to transfer schools when the coach that they signed up under leaves... this isn't much different, is it? And what do you care if the league you were in has a team which is no longer as dominant - that is one less factor you have to worry about.


Your are not very good at analogies. The Chuck Lidell thing? Come on.

They are guttings these teams and shipping as many players to "their" teams as they can. People keep looking at the players, but the players are screwed b/c their ring leader bailed on them. Look at the teams that are in conferences with the teams that are gonna receive the players from these gutted teams. Now, not only are the players on the gutted teams getting screwed, but the owners and players of the teams that now have to compete against the newly stacked teams are getting screwed. This has compounded the problem, not resolved the problem.


You don't seem to be very good at this whole logic thing.

Here's a thought - these GM's told everyone what they knew, which was basically, "Well, we get one PM every 24-48 hours, so we really don't know what is going to happen - but we're sure some guy is going to come take over this team - what do you want to do?"

I made the decision to go to another USAORG team - not the GM/owners.

The team was paid for the entire season and had several active GM's to run it. The solution here was simple so all you little bitches wouldn't cry so hard about having to play against other paying members of the game... so think about how to address that.
 
Painmaker
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Originally posted by Jiddy78
Originally posted by Painmaker

This incident merely highlights the glaring weakness that is GLB's mechanism for transitioning team ownership.

It's a shame that after two weeks of inactivity, without consulting rank-and-file team members, admins would simply intervene to transfer team ownership. No time to start a thread in the team forum to get a sense of what the players want? As far as I know and without exception, the Exiles and Border Jumpers enjoyed playing together and wanted to stay together under the existing conditions of playing time and team atmosphere.

Unfortunately, two weeks is a very short time to communicate with admins who send one cryptic PM every 48 hours or so to a single GM and don't communicate at all with the rest of the team. The reduces "communication" to about 5 exchanges between a single GM and an admin staff who rarely read the PMs accurately the first two times you send them so you waste your time correcting them. An admin who shall remain nameless would probably save himself a lot of time if he just doubled the time spent spent thinking, "my customers aren't automatically idiots, so if I find myself thinking that they are then I might have misread the PM." Compounding the problem, only someone who had been named a GM is eligible to "trump" the list to buy the team, and no one who already owns a team is allowed to buy another - severely limiting the pool of eligible buyers to hold the team together.

The GMs are left watching a trainwreck as team ownership will inevitably change hands to a random GLB player. Their loyalties are to their teammates, so it should be expected that they will work within the rules to help out their teammates at the expense of a random stranger. If some form of behavior isn't desired, then that mandate should be made clear to the community, with options ranging from rules changes to something as simple as a centralized and dynamic "standards of fair play" endorsed by the admin staff. We don't have that yet, so I continue to expect GMs to behave as the USAORG GMs have and do what they can to protect their teammates.

This topic deserves mature discussion and not the childish insults, personal attacks, requests for banning, and the like which have taken up half this thread. Real problems need real solutions.


Finishing off the year then being released seems feasible in midseason issues like this...for the OTHER players that are playing in divisions with the gutted teams. Seasons take on a life of their own in this game...'tis a shame to have them butchered because people hit the panic button. This problem was foreseen by USAORG GM's it appears, so why not restructure contracts to end on day 40 and perhaps give the new guy a chance to make a name for himself, possibly earn the respect of the players over a month?


That sounds reasonable, though right now it isn't an established standard for behavior. Why should the GMs show more loyalty to a stranger than their friends, when there is no established standard for doing so? Teams are "gutted" all the time right now, why should the USAORG GMs show less loyalty to their players than any other GM?

Do I think it would be better for the game for Bort to come out and say, "if you know ownership will be changing there should be a two-week moratorium on trades and releases before ownership changes, and all player contracts will be reset to Day 40 of the current season in the event ownership changes hands"? Absolutely. I think some code functionality could even be added to automate this function, such as an admin-selectable 'ownership changing' flag which puts these requirements into force and could only be lifted by extending the ownership period (paying flex points). But someone official (e.g. Bort) needs to put this out as an expected standard of behavior, otherwise no one can reasonably be expected to do it.
Last edited Jun 27, 2008 08:22:44
 
mocfam10
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Originally posted by Clinton Esquire

In the real world these people are paid a paycheck to play the game. In this game we are paying to play the game - telling me it's ok for my 10 year contract to get tranferred to some guy who for all I know wants to bring in his own lvl 8 players and send me to the bench for the remainder of my contract... or maybe even just the remainder of the year.

The solution here was easy - in the offseason, ownership will be transferred.

However you want to doll it up I'm a paying customer - and the team I was on paid for the entire season to be played - despite the fact the owner went AWOL, he had the teams in the hands of the GM's, and we should have been allowed to play out the entire season.

Ever dealt with a horrible owner?


I guess you missed the part about allowing the player to have the ability to make myself inactive or unavailable to be put on the depth chart. We are looking for long term solutions here. Not a quick fix to satisfy your situation. When the new owner comes in, he'll have two choices. He can see that there is already a team established and fall in line and enjoy the gift given to him. Then he closely molds the team how he wants. (Like it happens in real life.) Or he can come in and be an ass about it. That's why I said there should be something that allows players to "not play" there isn't this season. But it could be programmed in for the future. In the mean time (this situation), Admins should have the right to force releases of players that want out AFTER the new owner comes in. It's 50/50 really. He may go with the program...he may not. You don't know that for sure, but it sims that the organization you represent has made it pretty clear that everyone outside the organization is the devil and will ruin the team. You have already handicapped anyone outside the organizaion by ssuming everyone outside sucks at running a team. Yet, you want fairness. That's unfair. You haven't even given the new owner a chance. You and the current team will be 50% responsible if things go bad becaue you've already made up your mind that it wil be bad. When in truth, you have no idea. If it's truly as bad as you make it seem, then admin should be able to police the situation and make sure that both sides are treated fairly. Gutting the team before the new guy arrives isn't fait in the least bit. Players should have the right to refuse to play and owners should have the right to refuse to release. Neither side moves, admin steps in and forces fair trades or player releases. Not gutting and moving players to specific built in communities. I'm sorry, USC doesn't have it's own NFL team. Florida State doesn't have a Pro FSU team made up of 53 FSU players. Those players that don't want to play should be released and then the organization should be responsible for bringing them back in. Not the league's responsibility. Your org wants everyone together.....make it happen. AT YOUR OWN EXPENSE.

 
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