Warrior General Games

Originally posted by KCScott
The only way to determine if Bruiser truly works, other than the TFL stats I referenced earlier, would be to document every run you made in a season and then count how many broken tackles you made within 8 yds. of LOS. Then play the next season without the geaar and do same. As a couple of you have mentioned - different teams / play calling and level of blockers could affect whether it works.


A better test would be two identical builds playing on the same team, one w/ Bruiser and one w/o, in the same scheme over a season and looking at their production across all games. They would need equal stamina and they'd need to be the only two HB's on the depth chart.

If you're going to play the qualification game, I have powerbacks in OPL and USA AA. Bruiser works, and I'll also say that steady grip is a waste. Workout warrior is good if you've got high 70's-80's raw, but carrying for powerbacks is very overrated for breaking tackles when compared to strength.

Originally posted by KCScott

Which is misreprentative of how it should be described in the VA.

For those of you that saw my build while I had it opened, I put the VA into the attributes (WW & SG) where the add to the major attributes I believe will have a bigger impact on determining whether a tackle is broken than Bruiser.



I disagree that the description is misrepresentative/misinterpretative of how the VA actually works.

Originally posted by
Each level of Bruiser gives a +3% bonus to breaking tackles when using at least 50% Power running style and within 8 yards of the line of scrimmage.

"To" shows that the bonus modifies "breaking tackles," hence it's multiplicative to that inherent ability.

I saw the build, and I also saw and was surprised that you went with attribute VAs.

Originally posted by OMGWTF
Bruiser works, and I'll also say that steady grip is a waste. Workout warrior is good if you've got high 70's-80's raw, but carrying for powerbacks is very overrated for breaking tackles when compared to strength.

Somewhere in this fourm is a thread from one of the admins that does the testing.

They ran a sim like you described of Strength vs. Carrying HBs.

The Carrying HB had more broken tackles and higher avg YPC - You'll have to dig, but I'm sure it's in here.

And yes - my PB is at the 4th cap for Strength and 5th for speed - The next VA I fill after SG will be TS

Originally posted by KCScott
Originally posted by OMGWTF

Bruiser works, and I'll also say that steady grip is a waste. Workout warrior is good if you've got high 70's-80's raw, but carrying for powerbacks is very overrated for breaking tackles when compared to strength.

Somewhere in this fourm is a thread from one of the admins that does the testing.

They ran a sim like you described of Strength vs. Carrying HBs.

The Carrying HB had more broken tackles and higher avg YPC - You'll have to dig, but I'm sure it's in here.

And yes - my PB is at the 4th cap for Strength and 5th for speed - The next VA I fill after SG will be TS



I've read that and I know exactly what you're referencing.

Last season and the season before it I ran a few tests on my oldest HB who's become a testbed for his successor. I flat out saw an increase in broken tackles from running high strength gear vs. high carrying gear. In addition to that I've had the extreme pleasure of consultation and evaluation with one of the premier Owner/OC/DC's in the game who recommended moving any and all gear from carrying over to strength in addition to moving all VP from SG to other VAs. FWIW ATO's base carrying is 70.

It's your HB, you can do as you please, but recommending against Bruiser is one of the worst pieces of advice that I've heard in this forum. Take it for what it's worth.

All of my players gear is in Strength - with the exception of the AEQ Cleats which were +3 carry + 1 Stiff Arm I did add one Speed into that piece since I'm at the 5th cap.

No plans to add carry eqt points - they'll all be speed and strength.

But the way I see it, there's more value in adding VA to the attributes than to situational VA like Bruiser.

As you see in this thread - there's a lot of difference in opinion - just on builds.

I've seen the build of of one of the best powerbacks in USA pro - he also moved out of Bruiser to the Attributes

it's not really a situational VA since it happens on EVERY play. You're within 8 yards of LOS on every play after all...

Originally posted by KCScott
All of my players gear is in Strength - with the exception of the AEQ Cleats which were +3 carry + 1 Stiff Arm I did add one Speed into that piece since I'm at the 5th cap.

No plans to add carry eqt points - they'll all be speed and strength.

But the way I see it, there's more value in adding VA to the attributes than to situational VA like Bruiser.

As you see in this thread - there's a lot of difference in opinion - just on builds.

I've seen the build of of one of the best powerbacks in USA pro - he also moved out of Bruiser to the Attributes

+45% to break tackles within 8 yards of the LOS is hardly situational. In fact its the whole situation of the power back.

Originally posted by KCScott

For those of you that saw my build while I had it opened, I put the VA into the attributes (WW & SG) where the add to the major attributes I believe will have a bigger impact on determining whether a tackle is broken than Bruiser.



I would say that it entirely depends on your ability to break tackles via attributes already.
I think that if you have 95 strength and 70 carrying you're at a hefty %, and the way Bruiser works, the better you are the more it improves you. It's really difficult to debate, but I would definitely invest in Bruiser if your guy is a consistent tackle breaker. It'll make him that much better at it.

Jim Brown is so over rated. He played when not many guys knew how to tackle, Just watch some of the vids. He would be practice squad material at most these days. He is NOTHING !! Well.... I might give him the title "Worthless" but that's it !!!!!

Earl Campbell, Robert Newhouse and such are real power backs. Minimal moves and brute power. Now while Barry Sanders and some of the others mentioned here had great power they also had moves which changes their classification. Bo Jackson was one who blurs the lines. But I think he should still be labeled a Combo Back. Bo was a stud, I'd love to have seen a complete career from him.

I moved up to a higher league and my PB is having a hard time getting adjusted. Doesn't help that I'm under-leveled, but no way is the PB dead. Just not omnipotent.

Originally posted by Wicked98
Jim Brown is so over rated. He played when not many guys knew how to tackle, Just watch some of the vids. He would be practice squad material at most these days. He is NOTHING !! Well.... I might give him the title "Worthless" but that's it !!!!!

you sir, are an idiot.

Originally posted by Wicked98
Jim Brown is so over rated. He played when not many guys knew how to tackle, Just watch some of the vids. He would be practice squad material at most these days. He is NOTHING !! Well.... I might give him the title "Worthless" but that's it !!!!!


You should be barred from any and all football.

Originally posted by Wicked98
Jim Brown is so over rated. He played when not many guys knew how to tackle, Just watch some of the vids. He would be practice squad material at most these days. He is NOTHING !! Well.... I might give him the title "Worthless" but that's it !!!!!


Comparing old timers to new schoolers is about as retarded as you can get.

Originally posted by DiMo28
Originally posted by UndyingRhythm


But when people think greatest running back to ever play, they think...Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Gayle Sayers. Mainly because they remember them slicing line and burning everyone in their path.


The greatest RB of all time was a power back. Jim Brown. Walter Payton was more power than elusive. Earl Campbell, Larry Csonka, John Riggins, etc. are HOF power backs.

Spoken like a guy that never saw Walter Payton run.

Originally posted by Hako
Originally posted by Wicked98

Jim Brown is so over rated. He played when not many guys knew how to tackle, Just watch some of the vids. He would be practice squad material at most these days. He is NOTHING !! Well.... I might give him the title "Worthless" but that's it !!!!!

you sir, are an idiot.

+1