Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Ezzee
Originally posted by Longhornfan1024

I can't believe we are still debating this. Since everyone is pulling the "well you aren't in Pro" or "you don't have an elite cb" crap, I'll settle it.

Yes Man has played on one of the top teams in the history of GLB, Prague, and currently plays on one of the best teams, MEM, in the best league. I have seen the builds of most of the cbs on those two teams, and discuss cbs regularly with some of the top cb builders in the game. Those cbs are the ones covering the top wrs in the game including possibly the fastest wr, Colon Grifter.

That is my resume, here is what I have to say: one hundred speed is completely unnecessary. Most of the top cbs have speed/agility in the 95/85 to 90/90 range. The balance of speed to agility is necessary to take full advantage of your speed, and to keep up with a cutting wr. Getting speed to 100 is a waste of sps and forces you to sacrifice other more important areas. The people who argue that speed has to be at 100 or more don't understand that there is very much more to building a great cb than high speed. Speed is essentially the base that you start your build on, but once you get it to the proper level--68 base plus auto-level gains--other skills become more important. The top cbs aren't top because they have a lot more speed than other cbs, they are the top cbs because they have the other stuff at higher levels and in the proper proportion.


Yes, everyone has the best teams according to them and everyone has one of the top players in the game.

Congratulations, you want a cookie?

Seriously, my thought is build your player as you want, and try different things. If you want to have 150 speed, then have 150 speed. That is your choice. if everyone followed the advice of the so called "experts." then we would have a cookie cutter game that would be as boring as hell.

Yes, build your player however you want. If you want to cap tackling before speed go ahead. Its not a bad player, its jus different. The so called experts dont know shit.

Actually if everyone followed the advice of the experts it still wouldnt be cookiecutter since there are a bunch of things the experts dont agree on. 60 or 68 vision? cap catching? how many SAs? strength? confidence?

The only thing we all agree on is 68spd 68agility(even some think you only need 60) and 60vision.

Originally posted by Worker 3
Originally posted by jdpbernal

Originally posted by Worker 3


Originally posted by jdpbernal



I will say this.... .Speed should equal Agility with EQ on Agility.


no... agility doesnt need to be that high. a difference of about 10 is good. 95/85 or 90/80, or somewhere around there is pretty much ideal. keep those extra SPs you would use to get agility higher and spend them in SAs such as SV, SDC, SB, or SH, or use them to get secondaries like jumping, catching or strength up.

We're talking about Speed and Agility here. Obviously the other minor ones like Vision/Jumping/Catching needs to be worked on too.

i know, but why pour extra SPs into agl when you dont need to? once you get it to a difference of 10 (give or take a few), adding more agility doesnt do a ton for you. why keep working on something when your already good n that area? what im saying is that you dont need to get agility to = speed. take those SPs (about 30 or so minimum btw) and use them else where.

Dude I won't argue with you, you have a Level 50 CB so you definitely have the experience to give advices.
BUT even though my CBs have lesser seasons of experience, I also understand what and how to build a CB.
I'm not saying the take both Agility/Speed to 80. They should be almost the same because based on the games that my CBs have played I've seen how important having those two attributes almost the same.

And before you blast this post... Here's the profile of my LV36 CB (obviously you can't compare him to your LV50ish CB).
Strength: 22.6
Blocking: 8
Speed: 95.08
Tackling: 33.6
Agility: 65.08
Throwing: 8
Jumping: 52.08
Catching: 29.08
Stamina: 37.08
Carrying: 18.6
Vision: 60.08
Kicking: 8
Confidence: 32.6
Punting: 9

And then my LV32 CB that has high agility and speed.
Strength: 23.99
Blocking: 10
Speed: 71.27
Tackling: 26.99
Agility: 83.27
Throwing: 8
Jumping: 51.27
Catching: 22.27
Stamina: 35.27
Carrying: 16.99
Vision: 55.27
Kicking: 8
Confidence: 30.99
Punting: 9

And as you can, I'm not implying not to work on just Agility/Speed. Those building a CB should also work on Jumping/Vision/Catching/Confidence too.

Just to add, the above CBs have 3's an all the Shutdown SA Tree and 2's in the First Step and Quick Cut.

first off, i wasnt trying to be hostile, im just trying to say, if you have a differential of 10 (which is pretty close imo), adding 10 to agility isnt going to help much, and imo, its much more frugal to just invest in more FS/CD if you are unhappy with your performance and think agility is to blame.

but yeah, i dont plan on arguing with you either. your builds look good (there are a few iffy parts, but they are small in retrospect. mostly just little things like low catching and tackling being higher than strength. things that really dont matter a whole lot, and can go either way, especially since you are only lvl 36 and 32.) I do, as you said, have a lot of experience, and have a rather good stat line, but on the other hand, my lvl 50's build is far from perfect. i invested in early SAs, and my build was just all over the place to begin with. Your CBs should have much better builds than my current lvl 50 (whose build is open atm btw. missing 7 upgrades though.)

in conclusion, what we are saying is essentially the same. agility is important. the only thing we kind of disagree on is the degree of its importance. you think it should be the about the same, and i think it should have a differential of 10 give or take... which is pretty close to being the same, imo.

Originally posted by Crazed_Penguin
Originally posted by buehler91

Originally posted by mmuhr


90/85 or 95/80 if you really wanna be fast. Those that go to 100 are jokes.

considering many WR's have 100+speed, why shouldn't a CB?

CB's dont need 100+ speed to keep up with a 100+ speed reciever.

I would say 90speed/85agility is perfect.

It is this way now, but I doubt it will be this way in the future.

Another problem is the players in the "pros" are mostly season 1 and 2 players who really didn't know how to build(or that is what they always tell us) so it wouldn't be surprising that they only have 95 speed 75 agility.

But with the advent of slow building WR's, 110+ speed WR's are going to be more and more common as they move up the ranks and levels, and if you follow this advice which reminds me of the LB speed/agility craze, I think you might find WR's flying past you.

Even slow built CB's aren't throwing more points in speed, but if they were built well they will do well with natural level ups and hit 100 speed easily without really losing that much on the agility side. heck I have a 42 CB who has 100+ speed and over 70 agility.

While I do believe there is a follow code that I don't necessarily agree with, that follow code only seems to function at the start of the route and all that goes out the window when a QB targets the receiver. That is where the separation comes from.

So while a CB can do well with 95 speed 75 agility, I think a season 4+ CB should be hitting 100+ speed 75 agility without issue in the early to mid 40's which they will need to keep up with the season 4+ WR's.

Probably not that much difference either way, but if I had the choice, 95 speed 75 agility or 100+ speed 75 agility, well I think the choice would be obvious.

Originally posted by Mightyhalo
Another problem is the players in the "pros" are mostly season 1 and 2 players who really didn't know how to build(or that is what they always tell us) so it wouldn't be surprising that they only have 95 speed 75 agility.

But with the advent of slow building WR's, 110+ speed WR's are going to be more and more common as they move up the ranks and levels, and if you follow this advice which reminds me of the LB speed/agility craze, I think you might find WR's flying past you.

Even slow built CB's aren't throwing more points in speed, but if they were built well they will do well with natural level ups and hit 100 speed easily without really losing that much on the agility side. heck I have a 42 CB who has 100+ speed and over 70 agility.

While I do believe there is a follow code that I don't necessarily agree with, that follow code only seems to function at the start of the route and all that goes out the window when a QB targets the receiver. That is where the separation comes from.

So while a CB can do well with 95 speed 75 agility, I think a season 4+ CB should be hitting 100+ speed 75 agility without issue in the early to mid 40's which they will need to keep up with the season 4+ WR's.

Probably not that much difference either way, but if I had the choice, 95 speed 75 agility or 100+ speed 75 agility, well I think the choice would be obvious.

edited for wink.

Mighty, almost every wr in the Pros right now has 115+ speed. The cbs who do the best at stopping them have about 90. The difference here isn't 90spd/75 agi vs 100+speed/75 agi. If it were, the choice would be clear. The debate is 90spd/90agi vs. 100+spd/75agi. All the best cbs (as proven by success is the best leagues) will tell you that 90/90 is better.

Best defensive scheme is one with high agility corners and high speed safeties. If the FS can cover the deep ball, the CB can run with a little less speed and more agility. 90/90 CBs are certainly most effective, but if you leave them on an island against a 115 speed WR, he can get burnt deep. The only question is whether the opposing team notices that vulnerability.

Its also worth noting that with proper slow building, 100/100 is possible.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
Mighty, almost every wr in the Pros right now has 115+ speed. The cbs who do the best at stopping them have about 90. The difference here isn't 90spd/75 agi vs 100+speed/75 agi. If it were, the choice would be clear. The debate is 90spd/90agi vs. 100+spd/75agi. All the best cbs (as proven by success is the best leagues) will tell you that 90/90 is better.

I plan on debunking that, but that's part of the intrigue of this game. But my guy also has a good amount in change direction so maybe that's why he is such a freak.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
All the best cbs (as proven by success is the best leagues) will tell you that 90/90 is better.you took a poll?

Originally posted by Mightyhalo
Originally posted by Longhornfan1024

Mighty, almost every wr in the Pros right now has 115+ speed. The cbs who do the best at stopping them have about 90. The difference here isn't 90spd/75 agi vs 100+speed/75 agi. If it were, the choice would be clear. The debate is 90spd/90agi vs. 100+spd/75agi. All the best cbs (as proven by success is the best leagues) will tell you that 90/90 is better.

I plan on debunking that, but that's part of the intrigue of this game. But my guy also has a good amount in change direction so maybe that's why he is such a freak.

yeah, you can get away with a higher differential in speed and agility if you have good CD. CD and FS are essentially fake agility. they do pretty much the exact same thing. but SAs tossed aside, the 90/90 or 95/85 is going to do better than the 100/70. speedster WRs love FS for a reason... it helps bridge the massive gap in speed and agility.

Originally posted by Pagypie
Originally posted by Longhornfan1024

All the best cbs (as proven by success is the best leagues) will tell you that 90/90 is better.you took a poll?



its most likely an assumption, but it is more than likely true. i have connections with a few great CBs, one being in Pro, and just about every one has thier speed and agility within a reasonable difference.

Originally posted by Worker 3
Originally posted by Mightyhalo

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024


Mighty, almost every wr in the Pros right now has 115+ speed. The cbs who do the best at stopping them have about 90. The difference here isn't 90spd/75 agi vs 100+speed/75 agi. If it were, the choice would be clear. The debate is 90spd/90agi vs. 100+spd/75agi. All the best cbs (as proven by success is the best leagues) will tell you that 90/90 is better.

I plan on debunking that, but that's part of the intrigue of this game. But my guy also has a good amount in change direction so maybe that's why he is such a freak.

yeah, you can get away with a higher differential in speed and agility if you have good CD. CD and FS are essentially fake agility. they do pretty much the exact same thing. but SAs tossed aside, the 90/90 or 95/85 is going to do better than the 100/70. speedster WRs love FS for a reason... it helps bridge the massive gap in speed and agility.

Yeah I am interested in seeing what first step does for WR's this season since it has been adjusted a little bit. Should be interesting.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
Mighty, almost every wr in the Pros right now has 115+ speed. The cbs who do the best at stopping them have about 90. The difference here isn't 90spd/75 agi vs 100+speed/75 agi. If it were, the choice would be clear. The debate is 90spd/90agi vs. 100+spd/75agi. All the best cbs (as proven by success is the best leagues) will tell you that 90/90 is better.

you're a straight up fucking liar.