Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Mat McBriar
I prefer hiding dots: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=545218&pbp_id=1469143

That play is so vulnerable to many other plays from the Pro Set - if a team wants to run that against me, I'm all for it. Not really an exploit type play imo - an exploit play is a play that succeeds every time no matter what is thrown at it. I'm still not convinced the all zone is an exploit type play because I think it's very vulnerable to the run (need to test it to be sure), but it definitely is an exploit type play against the pass which means it needed to be addressed.

As for the QB vision check affecting the pass game negatively. It doesn't. The completion percentage and yards/attempt was virtually identical in testing before and after the vision check was introduced. All it does is change the likelihood of a QB getting rid of the ball quicker when being hurried (which was often much too quick) and that turning into a sack instead.

Bort really should have a pass defense skill imo.

He stuck too much on Vision.

Originally posted by thehazyone
Originally posted by Mat McBriar

I prefer hiding dots: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=545218&pbp_id=1469143

That play is so vulnerable to many other plays from the Pro Set - if a team wants to run that against me, I'm all for it. Not really an exploit type play imo - an exploit play is a play that succeeds every time no matter what is thrown at it. I'm still not convinced the all zone is an exploit type play because I think it's very vulnerable to the run (need to test it to be sure), but it definitely is an exploit type play against the pass which means it needed to be addressed.

As for the QB vision check affecting the pass game negatively. It doesn't. The completion percentage and yards/attempt was virtually identical in testing before and after the vision check was introduced. All it does is change the likelihood of a QB getting rid of the ball quicker when being hurried (which was often much too quick) and that turning into a sack instead.

The 11 men zone play should be very very vulnerable against the run, but I'm not sure if that's the case right now due to the ineffectiveness of the OL's blocking code, you'd think 5 OL could figure out how to block 3 LBs. Also, if there is no pressure on the QB, the QB should take his sweet time and wait until someone gets open rather than forcing the ball into triple coverage. I think the combination of these two factors makes the 11 men zone a very effective defense right now, which is really retarded.

As for the QB vision check, I think it's a band aid move. It doesn't fix the problem at the root, rather just a temporary window dressing fix. So we get more sacks now, but we get less hurried throws (bad passes) and potentially less INTs.

Originally posted by kurieg
Bort really should have a pass defense skill imo.

He stuck too much on Vision.

I agree. I think this is a fundamental problem with this game. Football is a very complex sport with many specialized positions requiring many different skills. Right now we basically have 14 attributes that covers everything, the SAs help a bit, but really about 1/3 of them are pretty much useless.

Originally posted by datongw
Originally posted by thehazyone

Originally posted by Mat McBriar


I prefer hiding dots: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=545218&pbp_id=1469143

That play is so vulnerable to many other plays from the Pro Set - if a team wants to run that against me, I'm all for it. Not really an exploit type play imo - an exploit play is a play that succeeds every time no matter what is thrown at it. I'm still not convinced the all zone is an exploit type play because I think it's very vulnerable to the run (need to test it to be sure), but it definitely is an exploit type play against the pass which means it needed to be addressed.

As for the QB vision check affecting the pass game negatively. It doesn't. The completion percentage and yards/attempt was virtually identical in testing before and after the vision check was introduced. All it does is change the likelihood of a QB getting rid of the ball quicker when being hurried (which was often much too quick) and that turning into a sack instead.

The 11 men zone play should be very very vulnerable against the run, but I'm not sure if that's the case right now due to the ineffectiveness of the OL's blocking code, you'd think 5 OL could figure out how to block 3 LBs. Also, if there is no pressure on the QB, the QB should take his sweet time and wait until someone gets open rather than forcing the ball into triple coverage. I think the combination of these two factors makes the 11 men zone a very effective defense right now, which is really retarded.

As for the QB vision check, I think it's a band aid move. It doesn't fix the problem at the root, rather just a temporary window dressing fix. So we get more sacks now, but we get less hurried throws (bad passes) and potentially less INTs.

The part that no one has mentioned in this thread is how the answer to that defense should be to throw screens. However, given how messed up the OL block pathing is, combined with the fact that every defensive dot reacts too quickly once the QB has thrown the ball, makes it pretty pointless to try anything against this defense. Even runs up the middle won't be effective due to the poor block pathing by the offense. An out of position penalty isn't going to fix this. Dropping 8 people into coverage and doubling every WR was already a pretty damn questionable defensive tactic when it came to how effective it was. The field should be 100 yards long and 50 yards wide - doesn't seem to translate well to dotball given the speed the defenders have to cover the sidelines.

For those people that don't think irl should apply to dotball, then let's just scrap the whole idea of tactics and have a sim that basically does the same things as that brute site does.

The easier fix would be to apply the repeat play penalty for the defense just like the offense has.

Originally posted by hookem888
The easier fix would be to apply the repeat play penalty for the defense just like the offense has.

There are at least 3 good ways to implement this style of defense, so no, this wouldn't really help.

well as I said earlier two things are most likely going to happen:

#1 - there will be a minimum requirement of 2-3 people rushing the QB on all plays (that number isn't settled yet)
#2 - DL will suffer a penalty for medium and deep zones and for any time they are a certain distance from the line of scrimmage (i.e. 20 yards down the field) and they are still in a zone (meaning the QB still has the ball).

Originally posted by islander1
Originally posted by hookem888

The easier fix would be to apply the repeat play penalty for the defense just like the offense has.

There are at least 3 good ways to implement this style of defense, so no, this wouldn't really help.

Depends. There's really an infinite number of ways.

Originally posted by thehazyone
well as I said earlier two things are most likely going to happen:

#1 - there will be a minimum requirement of 2-3 people rushing the QB on all plays (that number isn't settled yet)
#2 - DL will suffer a penalty for medium and deep zones and for any time they are a certain distance from the line of scrimmage (i.e. 20 yards down the field) and they are still in a zone (meaning the QB still has the ball).

#2 wouldn't really work and #1 is just a band aid. What would truly help is if the blocking mechanic was fixed where the OL wouldn't spread apart allowing the Defense to run through the gaps, if the OL stuck together and ran forward to find blocks at the 2nd level, teams would get punished for doing this by runs up the middle.

Originally posted by Okole
defensive tackles, while their agility/speed are likely high, should have some penalty when dropping into coverage. this would allow the defense, yet make it more realistic.

if a GM tried to put a LB or something in there, he'd incur a double penalty -- the LB would be out of position and then you'd have the penalty of the DT dropping into coverage.

it should definitely be allowed, but a DT in coverage should be pretty much useless....just a 300 LB man clogging the passing lanes

- 1000000 to that post.

Originally posted by thehazyone
well as I said earlier two things are most likely going to happen:

#1 - there will be a minimum requirement of 2-3 people rushing the QB on all plays (that number isn't settled yet)
#2 - DL will suffer a penalty for medium and deep zones and for any time they are a certain distance from the line of scrimmage (i.e. 20 yards down the field) and they are still in a zone (meaning the QB still has the ball).

Both are stupid ideas.

Originally posted by thehazyone
Originally posted by Mat McBriar

I prefer hiding dots: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=545218&pbp_id=1469143

That play is so vulnerable to many other plays from the Pro Set - if a team wants to run that against me, I'm all for it. Not really an exploit type play imo - an exploit play is a play that succeeds every time no matter what is thrown at it. I'm still not convinced the all zone is an exploit type play because I think it's very vulnerable to the run (need to test it to be sure), but it definitely is an exploit type play against the pass which means it needed to be addressed.

It is an exploit.

It wouldn't be irl. It is here because our QB can't look to defense 'formation' and say "hey, those 8 guys in the right side and 2 on the weak side, cool, let's run to the weak instead of the to the strong side". It's all pre-determined. We can't make changes in the middle of the game as coaches/players can. If you want football, then give dots some intelligence or fix those sploits without going against 'football rules'/game logic (as forcing 3 players to blitz or OOP for d-line playing zone).

If you want more RPG, it's even easier. Start banning anyone using exploits. It's plain and simple, all MMORPGs perma ban everyone abusing of sim bugs. Obviously, so far we are only testing, but if this play goes on, this could be an answer (not really suggesting it, just pointing out how football games and MMORPG solve the things. I like football more, but I wouldn't mind seeing most of you banished tbh).

Originally posted by kr0n
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=550669&pbp_id=2844758

dumb lol