Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Sik Wit It
I agree it is crazy for him to be effective after so many carries. But to the overpowered comment...Larry averaged 5 yards against you guys. Not too crazy considering past seasons.

Not to mention you are notorious for always bragging about your fast LB. Let me ask you....how much Strength/Tackling does Tim Harper have? Because if you tell me something like 60/60 or even 70/70 then it's ridiculous to think you're going to stop him. It's people like you who ruin the game asking for nerfs when your build isn't built to stop another type of build. Instead of improving your build, you ask Bort for help.



Tim Harper (Tim's LB) wasn't the reason Csonka ran all over us. And Harper has more strength/tackling than most people think.

No Doubt Csonka is a great back, but when our DTs missed 14 total tackles, and only made like 13, that's a problem. Our DTs are not short on Strength or tackling.

Also, I think the power back concept in GLB is totally wrong anyway. Power backs in football are backs that move piles, punish defenses (get punished himself at the same time). Rarely do you see power backs break for long TD runs, that's because they usually get caught from behind. There are a few things of power backs in GLB that is not right and should be fixed:

1) obviously is the stamina, power backs gets worn out quickly, in games and in season. Coaches monitor their carries carefully so they don't get burned out. There is a reason why a lot of PBs get less effective as season goes on, and why they all have short careers. I think stamina loss in GLB is mostly based on distance ran, which is not really accurate. People who wrestled will tell you that wrestling nonstop for 3 minutes is much more tiring than running for 3 minutes. Pushing the pile is more tiring than running in the open.

2) broken tackles, yes PB do break tackles, but not at the rate of GLB power backs. In GLB, power backs own DBs. But realistically, when DBs go up against power backs, they make the tackle most of the time. It's just that they won't stop power backs dead in their tracks, but they'll find ways to trip them up. And catching PB from behind in GLB is a joke, people just don't bounce off the back of power backs (except in Tecmo Ball). Even if the defender fails to bring the PB from behind, they usually manage to hang on, slow him down for others to come and gang tackle. They don't just bounce off one at a time.

I think something like agility has to be factored into tackling, a relative "weak" guy can still make the tackle if is techniques are right or just by tripping up the ball carrier. Not all tackles are done by taking the ball carrier head on, I played CB and I rarely try to tackle HBs above the waist, that's just not smart few DBs do that. A defender with good agility and tackling should still make tackles against PBs on a regular basis, just give more YAC to the PB after the spot of the tackle. Instead of having broken tackles all the time, give them more YACs. After all, most power backs are a few yards and a cloud of dust. But in GLB, PBs have more long TD runs than speed/elusive backs, which is just not right.

Originally posted by Sik Wit It
Still haven't answered the Strength/Tackling question.

I understand if you don't want to give exact numbers with all the competition around, but how about both combined? Over 120? Over 140?

How about DTs with combined over 180 missing half of their attempts. That's the crazy part...

I think that's just due to the increase Arm tackle radius Bort mentioned at the beginning of the season. I think a lot of the time they aren't in a good position to make the tackle, but get an arm on the ball-carrier, and it's counted as a miss.

Originally posted by Sik Wit It

See, I think those are about average numbers when it comes to most defenders. In that case, I would argue a power back should break a 1 on 1 tackle with you like 60% of the time. You are simply not strong enough to bring him down. Buuuuut the problem with GLB right now is gang tackling doesn't work the way it should. While your build may not be sufficient to make a 1 on 1 tackle all of the time, it should be good enough to at least slow him down. But the way gang tackling works in this makes no sense at all. Bort said something about a change, but it's so hard to find out what's really going on with the sim nowadays. Supposedly he made it so when off-balance, HBs slow down significantly. It was supposed to be live for today, but I've heard that it's also not live.


That is assuming that every tackler is taking the PB head on. Most of the time smaller defenders will try to trip them up. Also usually 2 thing happen when PBs bowls someone over:
1) they run right over them, but their momentum will make them fall forward and they usually stumble forward for a few yards before falling down.
2) the hit stops the momentum of the PB and he has to start from near dead stop again.

PBs without a full head of steam are not dangerous at all, look at Ron Deane. So PBs get hit in the back field or PBs losing their speed/momentum after a broken tackle should be much easier to tackle.

Originally posted by ryanbrock
Tim Harper (Lv. 50 LB)
Ht/Wt: 6'4", 250lbs

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength: 50.09
Speed: 104.94
Agility: 70.8
Jumping: 32.94
Stamina: 50.35
Vision: 68.29
Confidence: 41.47

Football Skills
Blocking: 18.94
Catching: 32.55
Tackling: 48.11
Throwing: 8
Carrying: 9
Kicking: 9
Punting: 9

Special Abilities
Hard Hitter Abilities
Snarl: 2
Aura of Intimidation: 1
Diving Tackle: 1
Monster Hit: 1
Defense General: 1

Pass Rusher Abilities
Trash Talk: 0
The Glare: 0
Shed Blocks: 0
Swat Ball: 0
Big Sack: 0

Veteran Abilities
Quick: 15
Track Star: 15
Brick Wall: 1

You forgot about the VA reset and 3 boosts he had this season....

Originally posted by Sik Wit It
I think that's just due to the increase Arm tackle radius Bort mentioned at the beginning of the season. I think a lot of the time they aren't in a good position to make the tackle, but get an arm on the ball-carrier, and it's counted as a miss.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=373216&pbp_id=6142159

This happened on like his 63rd carry. That's like our strongest DT

Csonka weighs 195, Rocky weighs 328, both were running at each other about the same speed. Tim Harper weighs 250 and he was coming in with much more momentum than Csonka. I don't have a degree in physics, but I'm sure it doesn't really add up. BTW, the DE he stiff armed weighs 275 and is not a speed build DE. None of the 3 defenders were engaging with any blocker when they missed the tackle. I also have no idea why the CB was not credited with a missed tackle, he did show great hustle to get a closer look at other people's missed tackle though.

Ideally I would think there is some sort of physics involved. Force = mass X acceleration. There's no telling when it comes to this game though because Bort doesn't disclose any of that info.

I doubt it's as complex as some people think it is, so sadly it probably doesn't take into account momentum in the break tackle roll or whatever happens.

Originally posted by Tim Harper
Originally posted by McGrai37

Originally posted by xcoach2


We're just surprised that everyone is making such a fuss after it was known that they were overpowered in S7. CoachV went an got Csonka and now it's "nerf this, nerf that."

How can you say everyone knew it was overpowered last season and then say people are just now asking for nerf's because you got Csonka?

Because if you haven't realized it yet, they think GLB revolves around them.

This is an issue that blankets all leagues and levels.

At least we think GLB revolves around our whole team (BTW it does), you think it revolves around one agent.

Originally posted by Tim Harper
Originally posted by xcoach2

Originally posted by Tim Harper


Originally posted by xcoach2



Power backs were every bit a broken in S7, why didn't HHW recruit one?

It was assumed they were going to be fixed and toned down. Guess we were wrong with the assumption, but we are happy with the halfbacks we have at the moment regardless. It just wasn't something we weren't actively looking for. It was discussed, but not something we needed.

We're just surprised that everyone is making such a fuss after it was known that they were overpowered in S7. CoachV went an got Csonka and now it's "nerf this, nerf that."

I have always had a displeasure about powerbacks, but I never made it a case to blanket the message boards with it. There has/is already enough of that going on. It isn't like Bort really listens to the community much when making gamesim changes anyway. That is pretty apparent already. It isn't that powerbacks don't deserve to bust off huge runs from time to time, it is when they do it with such a high frequency and disregard for the defense on the field.

See, this is hilarious. Of course you don't like power backs. They're the solution to your speed build.

It's amazing to see the crybabies come out when they've been building the same direction for eight seasons while neglecting two key stats for their position.

But you just stand on your soapbox Harper and pretend like you're still relevant.

Originally posted by datongw

1) obviously is the stamina, power backs gets worn out quickly, in games and in season. Coaches monitor their carries carefully so they don't get burned out. There is a reason why a lot of PBs get less effective as season goes on, and why they all have short careers. I think stamina loss in GLB is mostly based on distance ran, which is not really accurate. People who wrestled will tell you that wrestling nonstop for 3 minutes is much more tiring than running for 3 minutes. Pushing the pile is more tiring than running in the open.

2) broken tackles, yes PB do break tackles, but not at the rate of GLB power backs. In GLB, power backs own DBs. But realistically, when DBs go up against power backs, they make the tackle most of the time. It's just that they won't stop power backs dead in their tracks, but they'll find ways to trip them up. And catching PB from behind in GLB is a joke, people just don't bounce off the back of power backs (except in Tecmo Ball). Even if the defender fails to bring the PB from behind, they usually manage to hang on, slow him down for others to come and gang tackle. They don't just bounce off one at a time.




Definitely agree with you here.

- Right now, I think that with high enough confidence, the PB could be gaining/maintaining stamina with enough broken tackles. Having high stamina is one thing, but running for 60 carries a game and breaking tackles start to finish is another. Simple fix is 1. increase the stamina loss per carry and/or ill effects of low energy on the ball carrier, 2. decrease the gain in stamina via confidence from a broken tackle or both. I'd prefer the first option, its much closer to an "NFL-like" result and doesn't potentially discourage the powerback from doing what he does best.

- Your second point is dead on, and has been a problem for at least two seasons now. I have no problem with a lot of broken tackles per game, and those turning into decent gains, but tackling from behind desperately needs attention. This will add balance to builds when PBs don't have enough speed/agility (due to investment in strength/carrying/SAs) to breakaway from DBs in the open field. Not only will increased ability to tackle the ball carrier from behind add realism to the game, but its also going to decrease the "bullshit"/gamechanging runs for a power back who has 3 or 4 DBs bounce off his back en route to a 50 yard TD. Those are the really unbelievable and ridiculous runs that are putting the PBs over the top right now.

Originally posted by datongw
I think something like agility has to be factored into tackling, a relative "weak" guy can still make the tackle if is techniques are right or just by tripping up the ball carrier. Not all tackles are done by taking the ball carrier head on, I played CB and I rarely try to tackle HBs above the waist, that's just not smart few DBs do that. A defender with good agility and tackling should still make tackles against PBs on a regular basis, just give more YAC to the PB after the spot of the tackle. Instead of having broken tackles all the time, give them more YACs. After all, most power backs are a few yards and a cloud of dust. But in GLB, PBs have more long TD runs than speed/elusive backs, which is just not right.


This. I dont post much but this game assumes every tackle is the same when we all know a DB (heck even LBs when a Brandon Jacobs is running at them) will never ever try to arm tackle a RB above the waist--that is just dumb.

datongw and CG, I agree completely.

1) stamina loss for breaking tackles. The better the tackle, the more stamina loss. It should increase morale, decrease stamina. This would really help limit their big runs as well as their every down use. If a team wants to run three-four powerbacks so they can run every play, great...make 'em find those players and keep 'em happy.

2) broken tackles should be very rare in the open field (more likely up the middle when a blocker is on the tackler making things tough). A simple fix to this is to change the broken tackle roll to be VERY high in an open field. However, to combat this make the fight out extra yards increase in the open field. So, if a CB or weak ass FS tries to take down a power back, the power back is gonna fight out 3-5 extra yards instead of 1-2. Make it so the power back is rewarded, but the game isn't completely borked. Really bad tackling CBs would still get blown up with broken tackles.

Originally posted by PackMan97
datongw and CG, I agree completely.

1) stamina loss for breaking tackles. The better the tackle, the more stamina loss. It should increase morale, decrease stamina. This would really help limit their big runs as well as their every down use. If a team wants to run three-four powerbacks so they can run every play, great...make 'em find those players and keep 'em happy.

2) broken tackles should be very rare in the open field (more likely up the middle when a blocker is on the tackler making things tough). A simple fix to this is to change the broken tackle roll to be VERY high in an open field. However, to combat this make the fight out extra yards increase in the open field. So, if a CB or weak ass FS tries to take down a power back, the power back is gonna fight out 3-5 extra yards instead of 1-2. Make it so the power back is rewarded, but the game isn't completely borked. Really bad tackling CBs would still get blown up with broken tackles.

With #2 I disagree - most of the corners here at GLB are built like Deion Sanders. One time Deion saw a sweep play coming his way where he and the running back were isolated in a one-on-one situation. Sanders took a dive and didn't touch the running back. They were reviewing game film the next week on the play and some of his defensive teammates were giving him a little crap about basically falling down to avoid having to make any contact, he said - "I saw (the running back) coming and I had to make a business decision."

If anything open field broken tackles should happen more often when it's against a CB - and some safeties. Tackling in the open field can be more difficult than tackling in the hole. Especially if someone isn't using proper technique (read: they have low tackling).

I see your point. I remember one of those Deion plays! It was a laugh. Dude had serious shutdown abilities, but ask him to do run support, LOL!

This exposes one of GLBs big flaws right now, situational substitution. You can't play your low tackling, shutdown specialist only in passing situations. You have to play him whenever the sub settings put him in. So, we have a situation, how do you build a CB that can shutdown the best WR's and not get totally abused by a power back?

It's a rock/paper/scissors problem and right now the offense can do what they want without the defense being able to react.

As for my suggestion, I wouldn't mind seeing some broken tackles turn into really long fight out extra yards. I just think all the broken tackles are kinda ridiculous.

Originally posted by Clinton Esquire

With #2 I disagree - most of the corners here at GLB are built like Deion Sanders. One time Deion saw a sweep play coming his way where he and the running back were isolated in a one-on-one situation. Sanders took a dive and didn't touch the running back. They were reviewing game film the next week on the play and some of his defensive teammates were giving him a little crap about basically falling down to avoid having to make any contact, he said - "I saw (the running back) coming and I had to make a business decision."

If anything open field broken tackles should happen more often when it's against a CB - and some safeties. Tackling in the open field can be more difficult than tackling in the hole. Especially if someone isn't using proper technique (read: they have low tackling).

There's a difference between a head-to-head open field tackle, which I agree a good powerback should win more times than not, and a pursuing tackle where the DB can very easily take the legs out from under the ball carrier from behind.

The other important thing to note is that CBs are built a certain way out of necessity. Packman touched on this, but asking a CB to have the strength and tackling of an LB and still be able to cover a WR with 110 speed (before VAs) is just not realistic. There aren't enough SPs to go around. Vision checks are beginning to correct the issue and exposing the pure speed demon wideouts but there has to be some give and take due to the build balance across the board.

You could require WRs to have much higher strength and blocking to execute a block on a CB, something like that to bring more attributes into play. At this point, the offense can highly specialize, and defenders must be much more versatile which for the most part is handled alright in the sim, aside from some obvious flaws.