Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Meatdawg
Originally posted by iMan

Originally posted by Meatdawg


Originally posted by iMan





a normal equip upgraded 5 times will have a +6
a AE that starts at 3 and is upgraded 5 times will have a +8
if you upgrade both of them again, you will have a normal +7 and a AE +9. guess what you still have the same 2 skill point advantage yet you had to pay 48 BT to upgrade it 6 times. at if you upgrade it again, you will still only have a 2 skill point advantage after spending 54 BT




?
Normal equipment upgraded 5 times is +5 is it not? How are you getting +6

The swing on a piece that starts +3 is 3 not 2.

If your base is 68, and you are level 40, 4 normal equip pieces with custom gives you +30 total from gear. (6+6+6+6+6)
If your base is 68, and you are level 40, 3 normal equip and 1 AE and custom gives you +33 total from gear. (9+6+6+6+6)

Normal equip the stat is 98
Normal with 1 AE +3 is 101

48 BT = 12 sp.

To go from 68 to 71 to make the normal = the AE would cost you 4+4+4 or 12 sp. You break dead even. (This doesnt even factor in a SA you could be getting for free!) However, the higher your natural stat is, the better on your return you are getting.




a normal Equip starts at 1, an AE that starts at 3 will have a +2 advantage over a normal.
however, it is going to always be +2 advantage. to sustain that +2 advantage you will have to continuously use BT
so lets do the math

Base
+1 NE
+3 AE
First Upgrade
+2 NE
+4 AE
2nd
+3 NE
+5 AE
3rd
+4 NE
+6 AE
4th
+5
+7
5th
+6
+8
factor in that AE gets an upgradeat lvl 1 and you have a +3 advantage

but see how you have to continuously use BT just to keep that +3 advantage
you will never have more than a +3 advantage yet you will always have to use BT to sustain that +3 advantage


That +3 advantage is huge when your base stats are super high.... Why do you ignore this?

Factor in a SA or a % modifier and its a no brainer...



those things cost a lot when higher, but do they help you anymore than their face value?
and the + have the value of how much you paid for them, not how much they are worth factoring in softcaps.
an AE without SA/+% is like starting with at a higher platform but still moving up at the same rate.
+3 is +3. It not like +3 when you are 68+ base is gonna be like a +9. no, its just +3. Ill take a normal equip and use the Bt for something else over having 3 extra points.

Originally posted by iMan
Originally posted by Meatdawg

Originally posted by iMan


Originally posted by Meatdawg



Originally posted by iMan






a normal equip upgraded 5 times will have a +6
a AE that starts at 3 and is upgraded 5 times will have a +8
if you upgrade both of them again, you will have a normal +7 and a AE +9. guess what you still have the same 2 skill point advantage yet you had to pay 48 BT to upgrade it 6 times. at if you upgrade it again, you will still only have a 2 skill point advantage after spending 54 BT




?
Normal equipment upgraded 5 times is +5 is it not? How are you getting +6

The swing on a piece that starts +3 is 3 not 2.

If your base is 68, and you are level 40, 4 normal equip pieces with custom gives you +30 total from gear. (6+6+6+6+6)
If your base is 68, and you are level 40, 3 normal equip and 1 AE and custom gives you +33 total from gear. (9+6+6+6+6)

Normal equip the stat is 98
Normal with 1 AE +3 is 101

48 BT = 12 sp.

To go from 68 to 71 to make the normal = the AE would cost you 4+4+4 or 12 sp. You break dead even. (This doesnt even factor in a SA you could be getting for free!) However, the higher your natural stat is, the better on your return you are getting.




a normal Equip starts at 1, an AE that starts at 3 will have a +2 advantage over a normal.
however, it is going to always be +2 advantage. to sustain that +2 advantage you will have to continuously use BT
so lets do the math

Base
+1 NE
+3 AE
First Upgrade
+2 NE
+4 AE
2nd
+3 NE
+5 AE
3rd
+4 NE
+6 AE
4th
+5
+7
5th
+6
+8
factor in that AE gets an upgradeat lvl 1 and you have a +3 advantage

but see how you have to continuously use BT just to keep that +3 advantage
you will never have more than a +3 advantage yet you will always have to use BT to sustain that +3 advantage


That +3 advantage is huge when your base stats are super high.... Why do you ignore this?

Factor in a SA or a % modifier and its a no brainer...



those things cost a lot when higher, but do they help you anymore than their face value?
and the + have the value of how much you paid for them, not how much they are worth factoring in softcaps.
an AE without SA/+% is like starting with at a higher platform but still moving up at the same rate.
+3 is +3. It not like +3 when you are 68+ base is gonna be like a +9. no, its just +3. Ill take a normal equip and use the Bt for something else over having 3 extra points.


First off, I would never take a +3 NON SA or % equipment.

But if you must stick to the argument that I would, you have to factor in the value of the stat you are increasing.

Most people use there equipment to boost there best stat. If I can take my best stat even higher, you bet I will. My argument is that you have to spend those extra BT sp and use them on a minor or 2ndary stat. Once you do that, in my opinion you have already lost.

Considering an AE without an SA or +% is a straw man argument. I don't see anyone here saying you should settle for a +3 attribute AE. That would be silly, it would not be worth it.

And how do you put an SP price tag on an SA that you normally could not get in your player's position or a + Force Fumble %?

On the other hand, what if spending 8 bonus tokens let's me get my kicking to 68 at level 8 instead of level 9 for a kicker (it happened to me). Would anyone NOT trade 8 bonus tokens to be able to triple cap their kicking a level earlier?

Originally posted by TheGreatPuma
Considering an AE without an SA or +% is a straw man argument. I don't see anyone here saying you should settle for a +3 attribute AE. That would be silly, it would not be worth it.

And how do you put an SP price tag on an SA that you normally could not get in your player's position or a + Force Fumble %?

On the other hand, what if spending 8 bonus tokens let's me get my kicking to 68 at level 8 instead of level 9 for a kicker (it happened to me). Would anyone NOT trade 8 bonus tokens to be able to triple cap their kicking a level earlier?

A good mix would be the best of both worlds. Using BT to reach a cap early is always good, and only delays your AE by a short time.

So it's a question of whether you think something like +3 to an SA or +16% tackle chance or whatever is useful vs having additional SP.
SP which you can spend on the specific SA of your choosing or an attribute, and in some cases spend it on an attribute in a way that will benefit your leveling efficiency via reaching earlier caps.

To me this isn't an argument; I don't like SAs. Training normal a bunch of times doesn't appeal to me either.

You'll train normal want it or not. Near the end of your career in the D-leagues, you don't have money to train intsnse (especially in the offseason).

The only times I've run out of money is when I've bought Eq. Those times I sold the eq to continue training. If you're making more than about $280 a day in D leagues you should be able to go the whole way w/o equipment.

Not with the expanded offseason when you're near lvl 13 (too much money). If you sell equipment you gain only $1000.

Well, yeah, if you didn't have a team this past offseason you got screwed. That was abnormal though, don't know if it will happen again.

I have a question, I didn't see it addressed before.

I have an AE with an SA that dosn't go to that position. for example LB with a +2 SA in first step. Since it's not in a LB's normal SA's will it be useful?

Common knowledge is it is still good. The only problem is you'll never be able to add SPs to it. So it will never be able to get that high.

However, with how hard shopping can be and considering a lot of natural LB SAs aren't considered that great. I'd say stick with it.

I have the same piece for my LB. Haven't noticed a huge difference, but like most SAs in this game.. you just have to hope they're working and feel good about it.

This probably isn't a huge difference maker but I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread.

Its hard to calculate by how much but it was mentioned earlier that regular equipment can give you lets say 100 agility (71 base + 29 equipment) and AE can also give you 100 agility (68 base + 32 equipment). Regular equipment gives you the opportunity to use the BT's on SP's to raise that category. Thus 100 agility with regular equipment>100 agility with AE equipment because having the higher base will raise the effectiveness of SA's and also give a little bit more from VA's (not much but .45 more). Add in the fact that intense training>regular training and 100 agility with reg equip is definitely better than 100 agility with AE.

The +SA modifiers or % modifiers do make the piece of equipment better, but at what point does searching for the right piece of equipment outweigh the benefit of having AE.

I think we can all agree that if you got the perfect piece of equipment the first time you went shopping then AE>regular equip. Someone should do some math and figure out after how long of having to train on normal and shop is AE no longer worth it (assuming you hold out for a +3 stat +1 SA/+% piece of AE).

Originally posted by doubletree
This probably isn't a huge difference maker but I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread.

Its hard to calculate by how much but it was mentioned earlier that regular equipment can give you lets say 100 agility (71 base + 29 equipment) and AE can also give you 100 agility (68 base + 32 equipment). Regular equipment gives you the opportunity to use the BT's on SP's to raise that category. Thus 100 agility with regular equipment>100 agility with AE equipment because having the higher base will raise the effectiveness of SA's and also give a little bit more from VA's (not much but .45 more). Add in the fact that intense training>regular training and 100 agility with reg equip is definitely better than 100 agility with AE.

The +SA modifiers or % modifiers do make the piece of equipment better, but at what point does searching for the right piece of equipment outweigh the benefit of having AE.

I think we can all agree that if you got the perfect piece of equipment the first time you went shopping then AE>regular equip. Someone should do some math and figure out after how long of having to train on normal and shop is AE no longer worth it (assuming you hold out for a +3 stat +1 SA/+% piece of AE).


Why does it have to be 68 base on AE and 71 base on normal. Why cant it be 71 base on both, and thus 103 > 100

Originally posted by Meatdawg
Originally posted by doubletree

This probably isn't a huge difference maker but I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread.

Its hard to calculate by how much but it was mentioned earlier that regular equipment can give you lets say 100 agility (71 base + 29 equipment) and AE can also give you 100 agility (68 base + 32 equipment). Regular equipment gives you the opportunity to use the BT's on SP's to raise that category. Thus 100 agility with regular equipment>100 agility with AE equipment because having the higher base will raise the effectiveness of SA's and also give a little bit more from VA's (not much but .45 more). Add in the fact that intense training>regular training and 100 agility with reg equip is definitely better than 100 agility with AE.

The +SA modifiers or % modifiers do make the piece of equipment better, but at what point does searching for the right piece of equipment outweigh the benefit of having AE.

I think we can all agree that if you got the perfect piece of equipment the first time you went shopping then AE>regular equip. Someone should do some math and figure out after how long of having to train on normal and shop is AE no longer worth it (assuming you hold out for a +3 stat +1 SA/+% piece of AE).


Why does it have to be 68 base on AE and 71 base on normal. Why cant it be 71 base on both, and thus 103 > 100

I'm not positive, but I think the difference between 68 and 71 may have been made up by getting the skill points from the temporary token boosts.

Originally posted by nflcardholder
Originally posted by Meatdawg

Originally posted by doubletree


This probably isn't a huge difference maker but I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread.

Its hard to calculate by how much but it was mentioned earlier that regular equipment can give you lets say 100 agility (71 base + 29 equipment) and AE can also give you 100 agility (68 base + 32 equipment). Regular equipment gives you the opportunity to use the BT's on SP's to raise that category. Thus 100 agility with regular equipment>100 agility with AE equipment because having the higher base will raise the effectiveness of SA's and also give a little bit more from VA's (not much but .45 more). Add in the fact that intense training>regular training and 100 agility with reg equip is definitely better than 100 agility with AE.

The +SA modifiers or % modifiers do make the piece of equipment better, but at what point does searching for the right piece of equipment outweigh the benefit of having AE.

I think we can all agree that if you got the perfect piece of equipment the first time you went shopping then AE>regular equip. Someone should do some math and figure out after how long of having to train on normal and shop is AE no longer worth it (assuming you hold out for a +3 stat +1 SA/+% piece of AE).


Why does it have to be 68 base on AE and 71 base on normal. Why cant it be 71 base on both, and thus 103 > 100

I'm not positive, but I think the difference between 68 and 71 may have been made up by getting the skill points from the temporary token boosts.


Unless you are straight caping something to 68, you can achieve both if you manage your player well. Save your BT for AE but at the same time, when you can rach a cap a level earlier to gain the bonus from a natural level gain, use it.

This is the most efficent way to build.