Warrior General Games

/THREAD?

Following this theory, can you ever bring the number of drops down? If I increase catching even more, my radius widens and I try for even more difficult graps. Good that my guy is going for them for sure, but just curious about the drops.

There is just something about looking at a box score and seeing that my guy has 4 drops, for example, that screams "maybe you should increase catching (or vision, etc)". It makes me think I need to correct it. Just accepting it as "my guy is good, that's why" seems awkward.

Low confidence turns one drop into many drops.

However, if your drops aren't chain drops...maybe you just need to deal with it? It can also be the result of your QB getting rattled, hurried, sacked, etc. There are lots of reasons why a WR can drop a ball and it's not always the WR's fault.

Originally posted by Barnsie
Following this theory, can you ever bring the number of drops down? If I increase catching even more, my radius widens and I try for even more difficult graps. Good that my guy is going for them for sure, but just curious about the drops.

There is just something about looking at a box score and seeing that my guy has 4 drops, for example, that screams "maybe you should increase catching (or vision, etc)". It makes me think I need to correct it. Just accepting it as "my guy is good, that's why" seems awkward.

If this thread is accurate, your WR increases the distance away from himself that he can attempt to catch the ball.

Consider that your WR will only ever try to catch balls that are thrown to him (for evidence of this examine what your WR does when the ball is thrown to another WR - he continues his route or begins blocking).

So with this in mind all you do is change a QB error, which will read "incomplete" into an attempt, that attempt is what makes raising catching worthwhile(beyond the obvious bonus of catching easier). Even if you don't make the catch and get a drop, which looks oh so horrible on your stats, you came much closer to it than someone who simply realized they were out of range and didn't try.

My point is, there are only positives to raising catching, no negatives. If you have a larger radius, meaning you try for harder catches, you're trying for harder catches you would have missed anyway.

A counter argument is that your morale will be affected by the drop so maybe it's better if the QB takes the morale hit, but a QB morale hit affects your entire passing game, including your own.

Yea raising catching isnt a bad thing, i know my point and i think a few others is, dont raise it expecting to eliminate drops. Drops was a big thing this season (and the point of this thread) and i/we were just looking for reasons why catching seems to help AND hurt. not to bring up ratios in another thread, but it does seem that artificially raising catching over the 2ndary stats that also presumably help (str, vision, jump) isn't going to do much if anything to decrease drops.

BTW - It's important to note that in GLB a "drop" is you touched the ball but didn't catch it. In the NFL a "drop" is you didn't catch a very catchable ball.

Example: Your guy is wide open and starts thinking about heading upfield and drops the pass.
GLB: Drop. NFL: Drop

Example: Your dives for a pass and it goes off his finger tips.
GLB: Drop. NFL: Incomplete

Hope that helps.

Originally posted by
Correlations to catches;
Jump: .078
Catching: .105
Vision: -.054 ( Vision has absolutely nothing to do with the # of catches one receives)

Correlation to drops:
Jump: -.188 (seems to suggest that maybe jump would limit the # of drops)
Catch: .074 (your catch rating has little to do with the # of drops)
Vision: -.155 (similarly here, seems to suggest that vision will help reduce drops)

Correlations to Catches per drop:
Catch : .071
Vision: .095
Jump: .106

Summary:

It seems like the catch rating needs to be tweaked a little or left alone. Jumping is very undervalued as the players with the highest jumping values seem to drop fewer balls as well as catch more than they drop. Vision may help limit the # of drops but will not help you catch more balls.




OK that's from another thread in the main forum. The sample size they used isnt really big enough to draw any concrete conclusions, but the above data certainly falls in line with what we've talked about in here. namely, catching gets you to more balls and increases your catches but because of that, doesnt help your # of drops

If we expand upon the 'circle' theory we talked about, maybe jumping physically moves you closer to the ball at the time of the catch? in other words, it moves the center of the circle closer to the ball, reducing the distance and making harder catches easy. So catching makes your circle bigger, and jumping makes it more mobile? i dunno, just trying to figure out any sort of reasoning behind jumping decreasing drops and thats the best i can come up with.

Originally posted by knudlen
If we expand upon the 'circle' theory we talked about, maybe jumping physically moves you closer to the ball at the time of the catch? in other words, it moves the center of the circle closer to the ball, reducing the distance and making harder catches easy. So catching makes your circle bigger, and jumping makes it more mobile? i dunno, just trying to figure out any sort of reasoning behind jumping decreasing drops and thats the best i can come up with.

I think it's more likely that Catching expands your circle laterally, while Jumping expands your circle vertically -- so that in actuality there is a Catching Can, not just a circle. A WR with a low Catching skill but a high Jumping skill would have a Catching Can that looked like a soup can. A WR with a high Catching skill but a low Jumping skill would have a Catching Can that looked like a pancake. Trying to help you visualize.

I think the reason Jumping would make you drop fewer passes is because the defender most likely has a lower Jumping skill, meaning when you jump into the air after the pass you reduce the pressure he is able to put on you because you're flying above him. This reduced pressure is probably responsible for the lower number of drops from jumping imo.

the problem with that idea is, catching should expand the circle beyond with the defender can cover as well. so if jumping means you can get to balls higher and make them easier, catching should do the same. it doesnt, so its pretty safe to safe thats not how jumping works either?

Originally posted by knudlen
the problem with that idea is, catching should expand the circle beyond with the defender can cover as well. so if jumping means you can get to balls higher and make them easier, catching should do the same. it doesnt, so its pretty safe to safe thats not how jumping works either?

Catching does the same but in a different way -- catching skill won't negate any pressure from the defender, but it'll make you more likely to catch the ball anyway.

And catching does expand the circle beyond the defender, that's how the QB's do-I-throw-to-covered-WR formula works.

right but catching doesnt reduce drops. it increases catching oppertunities beyond the scope of how much it helps. so you drop less % but have more chances so your drops stay the same or increase.

according to the above results, jumping doesnt help increase chances as much, but does a LOT for reducing drops. thats not the same thing as what catching is doing, at all.

I would think using the circle theory you start with a given circle on these axis points x,y,z and catching increases the chance within this circle. Now add in jumping into the equation which widens that circle (x,y,z) ie being able to jump to a point on the x,y,z axis to get to the ball. I would think agility/speed play apart in this also. Now throw vision into the equation which I think allows you to make the right adjustment to make a play on a bad throw. Vision may help on other things like being able to read defenders to make the appropriate moves at a certain time to get separation, etc. Using this example and just looking at the z axis (depth) for jumping would the QB know enough the throw the ball high in the air to a player that is double/triple covered? Considering if the WR could out jump the defenders by lots of points.

I think a drop is better than an incomplete pass because at least the player had a chance at the ball. If the drops or incomplete passes are in a wide open areas there are other problems at hand.