Warrior General Games

Originally posted by aaasahi
Do you watch my newest data above?
Your data is very interesting because it suggests that Hurdle gets the first roll on diving tackle attempts, before Power Through. It also suggests that you didn't necessarily break diving tackle attempts more often, just that Hurdle was credited with the successes more often whereas the non-Hurdle build broke about the same percentage with Power Through.


Originally posted by Time Trial
But since I know that's not what you meant, yes... level 79. 1452.64 SP Value. He's averaged over 6 YPC up the gut for the last five seasons in Pro/Elite. Not sure why you would think this is a bad build.
Because it is. This is one of the builds I mentioned passing up even though I was desperate for a power back. 117 speed only makes sense on a PHB who has 130+ strength. Generally speaking, strength + carrying + speed on a power back should add up to ~340 with equipment.


Originally posted by ProfessionalKop
eh yo bhall. 48 vision necessary for a powerback or can i go lower?
I agree with bhall, and contrary to what Novus said earlier, agility is something you can skimp on as well. Power backs shouldn't be making many cuts, and although Bort said that agility has a part in the break tackle roll, I don't think it's a very big one. Agility does help Spin fire, but a power back really shouldn't invest in Spin given that it's both penalized and at the end of the tree. The recipe for PHB success is pretty simple. Pump the shit out of strength and carrying, have enough speed to be effective, and then sign up with an OC who will use him properly.

Figured it would be pretty obvious hurdle would fire before power thru on diving attempts. It is what the whole sa is for of course.

There has been a lot of talk about it stacking with the power abilities as well. Thought there was a bort quote on that but I surely am not gonna find it on this phone.

Musashi needs replacing next ssn for all your powerback builders out there

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
Yes, I'm still unconvinced.
I think the bonus that Hurdle provides isn't very large, and I'm still willing to bet that any dot unlikely to break the tackle on their own is very unlikely to break the tackle with hurdle. The situationalness of the SA just makes me even more wary. If I was building a PHB, I'd just put the points in jumping, speed, powerthrough, surge, and LTS... which is what I am doing. I personlly don't think the bonus from LTs isn't very large either, but it's in tree, and won't be as expensive as Hurdle to update since I have CEQ and have to put some points in it anyways to get to power through.

I don't think it's worth the investment. Just because it shows up in the pbp doesn't mean it provided a major benefit. On my dot before I invested in strength and before I finished capping carrying I saw a huge uptick in broken diving tackles from putting points in jumping, and considering the comparatively cheap cost of getting jumping to 60-80 with multi-training an SP's compared to the 30 SP investment to get Hurdle, which needs 50 jumping anways, it just makes more sense for me to pump jumping and ignore this SA which I find to be very questionable.

Honestly, the only break tackle SA's I think are really worth investing in are Spin, Power Through... and that's it.

yeah hurdle is stupid, everyone stop using it now.

Here's one I came up with:
Position: hb_power_back
Level: 79
VA: 72
Bonus Tokens: 1279

Attributes:
strength : 103.02
speed : 86.34
agility : 76.1
jumping : 50.26
stamina : 63.34
vision : 20.26
confidence : 34.1
catching : 34
carrying : 99.1

Top SA Tree: | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Bottom SA Tree: | 2 | 3 | 5 | 10 | 0 |
Additional SA Tree: | 10 | 8 | 0 | 0 | 0 |

Originally posted by bhall43
Figured it would be pretty obvious hurdle would fire before power thru on diving attempts. It is what the whole sa is for of course.

There has been a lot of talk about it stacking with the power abilities as well. Thought there was a bort quote on that but I surely am not gonna find it on this phone.

Yes, according to Bort the bonus from Hurdle can stack on top of PT, LTS, StiffArm, and Spin. So in essence you can get the bonus from both SA's on the same broken tackle. Even with that the SA seems horribly under-powered to me.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
Yes, according to Bort the bonus from Hurdle can stack on top of PT, LTS, StiffArm, and Spin. So in essence you can get the bonus from both SA's on the same broken tackle. Even with that the SA seems horribly under-powered to me.

Be careful about that thought though. Sometimes it's all too easy to label a skill or SA (or VA) as "underpowered" because it fails to meet our personal ideals. But just because it isn't overpowering, doesn't mean it's not extremely useful. Sometimes it assists other skills or SA's (or VA's) to work better or more often. And sometimes, it simply adds to the total quality of a dots performance.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Be careful about that thought though. Sometimes it's all too easy to label a skill or SA (or VA) as "underpowered" because it fails to meet our personal ideals. But just because it isn't overpowering, doesn't mean it's not extremely useful. Sometimes it assists other skills or SA's (or VA's) to work better or more often. And sometimes, it simply adds to the total quality of a dots performance.

I didn't come to this conclusion on a whim. There are only so many SP's to spend, and just like you won't catch me putting points into Stiff Arm, you also won't catch me putting points in Hurdle.