Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
A high speed power WR? I'm not sure that's the best argument for him to make. Or even a good argument. Or if it's even an argument without a definition of high and power WR.

well it makes sense considering on an archetype with speed as a minor you are going to have to push it further, im not sure his example was that good considering the difference between a minor and a major on a WR is like nothing and its not gonna be that much of a hit regardless...

shit well i guess he was wrong the whole time

Originally posted by Timetoshine-Metta
uh read his example and stop trolling
no u

Originally posted by Dr. E
For example a power receiver and you want to train speed high, it's going to take a hit to it's effective level.

My personal self-amusing shots aside, what sort of build plan are you doing? You're being very vague.

I mean, there's no other WR Archetypes beside Power that even HAVE Strength even as a Minor, let alone a Major, so if you want high-Strength on your WR, that's the only Archetype to pick. But what build order are you using? If you're putting Speed 1st or 2nd in your build order, you're definitely doing it wrong. Thanks to the +0.33 ALGs for the Minors (and Speed is a Minor), you'd probably be just fine having Speed 4th in your build order behind Agiity, Catching and Strength (not necessarily in that order), or maybe 3rd ahead of either Catching or Strength, and off the top of my head I think you'd end up with a WR that is better AND has a higher EL than what you seem to be suggesting.

Lots of "if"s there, though. I'm having to make a big assumption about where Speed is in the build plan you're talking about, and I'd really need to run some example builds through the VPB, which I'm just not interested enough to do at the moment.

And even then, what are you trying to accomplish with this hypothetical "power WR"? You might be able to accomplish your goal even better by just building a Speed Archetype or Possession Archetype WR, putting more into Catching and Carrying, and saving Strength for WAY late in your build plan since it won't get any ALGs at all under those Archetypes.

So many unanswered questions around your hypothetical "power WR", I can't even begin to guess if you're right or wrong.

He's wrong.

Originally posted by jdbolick
He's wrong.

Life must be awesome on your planet, Comic Book Guy.

Originally posted by Hagalaz

Ok, options...

A) Tell you again that you were wrong, with proof, and remind you that other people than me told you that you couldn't be 100% sure

B) Insult you, your dog and your family up to the third degree.

Take your pick. I'm through with you. Vermin don't deserve to be given the same respect that humans get.

As to the people who are actually rational, here:


Like I said, cognitive dissonance. I was proven to be correct by Bort's own statements. You were (and still are) incapable of being able to process being proven to be totally wrong.

Your post was reported, I will not be tricked into discussing with you. You are not my peer. My time will not be further wasted by you.

Want to keep wasting yours, do so, FFA is a good place for it. Goodbye.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Define "can't". I can't scale mount everest either. I also never TRIED. I am sure several of my players could do very well in WL teams.

Also, as I said above, placing the SP in the right places is something that can't be taught. Getting more points to spend (aka higher EL and build value) CAN be taught and -> SHOULD <- be demanded by anyone.

Just imagine how much better those dot builders that know where to spend points would be if they had ONE HUNDRED EXTRA SP TO SPEND!

Not without hurting some other attribute you can't. Which is the strength of a good 2AEQ build method, you use fewer skill points in pushing your first few attributes to caps, enabling you to get other attributes higher.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Your post was reported, I will not be tricked into discussing with you. You are not my peer. My time will not be further wasted by you.

Want to keep wasting yours, do so, FFA is a good place for it. Goodbye.

lol. You just lost.

Originally posted by jdbolick

then you picked the wrong archetype.


Not if it has something the others don't as in pass blocking O line. No argument the pass blocking archetype has better VAs for pass blocking. So if you want to put to use those VAs in your stacking with SAs then you are stuck with using an archetype where strength is needed, but is a minor attribute.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
A high speed power WR? I'm not sure that's the best argument for him to make. Or even a good argument. Or if it's even an argument without a definition of high and power WR.

IT wasn't a point about WR at all, it was about having an effective Dot that may have an effective level lower than other dots of the same position, yet be effective at that position.

Originally posted by Novus
My personal self-amusing shots aside, what sort of build plan are you doing? You're being very vague.

I mean, there's no other WR Archetypes beside Power that even HAVE Strength even as a Minor, let alone a Major, so if you want high-Strength on your WR, that's the only Archetype to pick. But what build order are you using? If you're putting Speed 1st or 2nd in your build order, you're definitely doing it wrong. Thanks to the +0.33 ALGs for the Minors (and Speed is a Minor), you'd probably be just fine having Speed 4th in your build order behind Agiity, Catching and Strength (not necessarily in that order), or maybe 3rd ahead of either Catching or Strength, and off the top of my head I think you'd end up with a WR that is better AND has a higher EL than what you seem to be suggesting.

Lots of "if"s there, though. I'm having to make a big assumption about where Speed is in the build plan you're talking about, and I'd really need to run some example builds through the VPB, which I'm just not interested enough to do at the moment.

And even then, what are you trying to accomplish with this hypothetical "power WR"? You might be able to accomplish your goal even better by just building a Speed Archetype or Possession Archetype WR, putting more into Catching and Carrying, and saving Strength for WAY late in your build plan since it won't get any ALGs at all under those Archetypes.

So many unanswered questions around your hypothetical "power WR", I can't even begin to guess if you're right or wrong.

It wasn't a remark meant specifically about a WR, but instead about dots with lower effective levels. But just to carry the point out, there are reasons to use the power archetype over others, for example, no penalty SA. And you are correct with "lots of ifs", number one of those being, if I was using a conventional build method, a power WR would be the wrong choice or at the least a weaker choice.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Not without hurting some other attribute you can't. Which is the strength of a good 2AEQ build method, you use fewer skill points in pushing your first few attributes to caps, enabling you to get other attributes higher.

Man, you are wrong. Let me prove it to you by giving me a challenge to build a player and I will show you that you can get to the thresholds you want in a more efficient way.

I am trying to show you a potential better path. You are blindingly dismissing something when you don't even understand how it is done. Is this really what you want?

Originally posted by Dr. E
IT wasn't a point about WR at all, it was about having an effective Dot that may have an effective level lower than other dots of the same position, yet be effective at that position.

And my argument was that you can't just give a high speed power WR as an example of an effective dot with a low EL without actually telling us what you mean by high speed power WR.

Given you don't shop or anything and purchase the most expensive AEQ possible (+3 to attribute, plus a 75 point bonus SA/+5% gear) , you are saving 425 BTs, the equivalent of 28 SPs in value. Even a dot with it's top stat in the low 90s costs a minimum 11 SP to go up one spot, which means you get +2 out of your "AEQ savings".

So, if the argument is to forgo a the 3AEQ build to get an extra +2 in a major attribute (which you are getting "high 90's where the 28 SPs mean even less, and if you are over 100, you are sucking up the entirety of these SPs), you end up with a net loss of -1 on the attribute and no additional AEQ bonus.

If you shop, the overall BT cost for a fully-upgraded piece goes down, with the equivalent opportunity cost of not going with a 3rd AEQ piece being even greater.

Sure you get to multi a little longer, but that's a huge cost on the top end of the build.