Warrior General Games

Originally posted by beenlurken
Originally posted by yello1

Originally posted by beenlurken


If you cant look at the play that I linked before...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1667086&pbp_id=7830780


One more thing on that play, and the others like it in tonights game (both ways, though we didnt generate a turn over), in an NFL game, do you really think a returner is going to fumble in that situation???? Hes going to plow head on into five tacklers????? I dont have game film in front of me but I suspect he is going to tuck the ball in real good and if not QB Slide at least create a tackle on his terms with him holding for all he is worth to the ball and avoiding a big hit.

Here its like hes unaware of the avalanche coming at him and he drops it often. Very dumb.

Again, do you ever see NFL teams dumb enough to put their returner in that situation (that situation was completely avoidable on your part... why do you continue to do things that even the worst NFL teams dont do)?

I would love to hear your rational of how Bort should code it any different than it already is such that the returner would have made a decision different than what is seen...

Sigh,

You have heard my rational.

Originally posted by beenlurken

1) Goal Line Blitz is not affiliated with the NFL or any other professional football league I dont why you continue to ignore the simple fact that Bort's vision/goal of this game is not a direct or close to direct simulation of NFL. Again, the MAJORITY of the people playing this game want to see their dots rack up stats even at the expense of losing "realism" within the game. This was decided on in the first few seasons of GLB's existence. To continue to spam for "realism" is going to get you nowhere.

Bort had to say that to avoid being sued by the NFL because his game is SOOOO clearly about the NFL.

Again, its a Pro Football simulation. Name another pro football league.

And, btw, the same points would apply to ANY pro football league you might want to make up or pretend is relevant. Parity of "builds" is still going to be there.

Hell even COLLEGE has never had a 255-0 game.

Originally posted by
Regardless, your "NFL" analogy is ridiculous. What I see in that play is not TWO NFL teams playing each other... I see one using NFL strategy while the other is using.. well, I dont even know what to call it because it is so gawd awful terrible... it certainly is not Pro quality. Again why would you expect to see NFL results when clearly on of the teams is not exhibiting NFL qualities/strategy/etc?...Understand this... reaching level 72 and having you team make lolNat Pro does not make it "NFL quality". The fact that you think that simply building to end-game should guarantee "NFL" quality is laughable

Its a REALLY simple concept. Folllow along.

The game is about NFL players. Or Pro Football Players if you prefer.

EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE GAME IS NOTHING BUT A PRO FOOTBALL PLAYER BECAUSE THE GAME IS ABOUT PRO FOOTBALL.

Thats the premise of the game. Stop, read that again. Read it as many times as necessary to understand what that point means.

See this is about the GAME. Not the customers use of it.

The GAME purports to be a Pro Football Simulation. It therefore needs to have game results and game performance that reflects what one expects from a Pro Football Simulation.

You do not have 255-0 games in Pro Football, nor 6 or 10 or 20 Fumbled returns or 6 KR TDs etc etc etc.

Originally posted by
I will say it again... what is the point of building dots if the end-game difference between dots is negligible?

You know I never ever EVER FRAKKING SAID NEGLIBLE

Why do you keep saying you are a homosexual????

What you never said that????

Well I am just going to keep pretending you did because thats what I feel like arguing about.

Annoying and stupid isnt it?

Do I make myself clear?

Read my replies above to see what I actually DID say. Narrowing the range to realistic results is not the same as negligible. The NFL is filled with stars and duds. But they still dont run up 255 point wins and 6 KR TDs a game. They DO get 20-30 point wins and maybe 2 KR TDs. The latter is what GLB should allow - between the WORST match ups - and the former should never happen in the game at all ever no matter what the match up. Because the game is a pro football sim and a pro football game at its worse never runs the score or stats up that high.

Originally posted by
It is not a fail of the sim is a fail on YOU for putting slow ass players on your punt return team and allowing almost everyone of their coverage players attack your punt returner unblocked. The only reason that looks so ridiculous is because of YOU.

Slow ass?

110-120-130 speeds are slow assed? Many with an additional 15% from ST VA.

Really?????

Originally posted by yello1
This is a joke, right? You have 5 players that only hit 22-23ish on the speed script (that is SLOW) and 5 that only hit 30-32 on the speed script... while there coverage team all hits 35-36+ on the speed script (and I wouldnt call them fast). How on earth do you think that return should be fast enough to beat that coverage team down field to reengage in blocks? You have to realize how unbelievably naive you look here...

Well maybe I am. CLEARLY I am because I am asking in this section for advice on how to build the ST (as opposed to the rest where I am talking about the game simulation which has nothing to do with that subject despite your fixation with it).

The only slower guys (speeds ranging from 70-100 IIRC) are the ones in the DL spots. I was told to use O Linemen there. Other than the STOP Centers (who are all speedier) I do not have O line men with speeds over 100. Do you? Or is it incorrect to put O Line men there.

See to me shouldnt they with their high agility and strength and blocking be stopping the coverage players BEFORE they run past them? Isnt that the point?

Every other player on ST is 110 at least and most are over 120 and up to the 130 range (KR being higher of course).

What is wrong with that? What was I told that was incorrect?

Originally posted by
If you are going to continue to debate this then at least stay on topic... what your team did on kickoffs has nothing to do with how shitty you punt return team is.

Its the same players in the same basic slots is why I bring up the KR issue.

Originally posted by
The bold is where you are failing in this argument. You insist that everything that you are doing is right and that simply is not true. Clearly those slow ass OL that you insist on using on punt returns (no.. im not talking about the STOPs) ARE built very differently from those they are trying to block. The little speed that you do have on the punt return team is put in the wrong places. Why do insist on using something that is not working? Why do you refuse to watch/mimic others who are not having the problems that you are having? It is a shame you have wasted almost a seasons worth of punt returns with that shitty strategy infront of your returner without trying something new... we have seen what he can do with decent blocking on KO's (well that and playing for an average at best team that gets a lot of KR opportunities against mediocre teams that they cant keep from scoring).

First as to watch mimic others, if I cant see the builds, how can I do that??? This is why the game mechanics need to be more open. But thats another thread.

Okay I take it the advice I was given and went with myself as well to put O linemen in the DL slots is the error. Okay in that instance I see your point.

But the OTHER players, the ones who ARE fast are ALSO being beaten just as badly - hell sometimes worse. So how does your logic explain a 125 speed Tight End etc being run around?

Originally posted by
Again, stop wasting your time whining and start working on fixing YOUR problems

You really need to disconnect the notion that complaining about the bad simulation is in any way related to learning the game. Two separate issues. I can learn how to play this game perfectly, and the simulation will stil be bad. I have enough attention span to do BOTH.

Well maybe not learn the game. Apparently it takes a crapload of time since you get so much conflicting advice.

Originally posted by
I have practically spelled it out for you now. Your welcome. Once you actually starting doing things right and you are still having problems, then you can complain. Until then its just your usual routine of whining and making excuses for your shortcomings.

Not quite, you havent told me how I fit 11 perfect ST PR players onto my 55 man roster without borking them for normal downs.

And, again, 255-0 scores and 6-10-20 KR FFs KR TDs is broken no matter how bad my builds or DC is.

Nothing you say will change that. Not till Bort changes the name of the game to Dungeons and Faeries with Footballs.

Thanks for the advice. Looking forward to hearing what I SHOULD be putting in the DL slots. Though I am not sure I have enough speedy players with blocking left over to do it any different anyway. But for future reference at least should be informational.

Originally posted by beenlurken
Originally posted by yello1

The current state of GLB isn't even vaguely close. 255-0 etc.

How can you expect anyone take anything you say serious when you make comments like this? That has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

I dont know why I have to explain this to you... but those games are the result of shitty league structure and GLB's inability to remove CPU's from the higher levels.

And how can I take you seriously when you refuse to listen to what is said to you.

The worst team in the league should not lose by 255 points to the best team because the game is about pro football and pro football should never have a score that high.

If GLBs mechanics allow scores that high (or other out of line stats) then the mechanics are not accurately reflecting football outcomes and match ups and those mechanics need to be fixed.

Thats the entire point of my posts on this issue. So it would behoove your burgeoning carpal tunnel to re-read that as many times as necessary to understand it.

Bort did not sht out the perfect Football simulation code. What we are playing is not Gods Formulas for Football. Its crap Bort made up. And its not creating results reflective of football - nor reflective of a good game. It needs to be adjusted accordingly.

This is not an attack on your teams superior builds nor an attempt to unman you.

Its simply an undeniable reality which any rational person can observe from the game results GLB creates.

Let me try to set this aside for all to grok.

GLB is a simultion of pro football.

GLB is not a simulation of what would happen if Pro Football Players occassionally played girls soccer teams.

Every single dot on every single virtual field in every single GLB game should be considered a pro football player and modelled by the game mechanics as one.

The role of players is to make either a bad pro player or a good pro player. No matter how badly a player does his job, the dots that result should never be worse than a bench warming NFL player. Not a girl scout.

Same same bad pro game plan or a good pro game plans. No matter how bad your game plan, the results should be NFL esque. Not NBA esque.

The role of the GLB code is to make that happen.

If its not happening, its the fault of the GLB code - not the players.

Originally posted by yello1
Its a REALLY simple concept. Folllow along.

The game is about NFL players. Or Pro Football Players if you prefer.

EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE GAME IS NOTHING BUT A PRO FOOTBALL PLAYER BECAUSE THE GAME IS ABOUT PRO FOOTBALL.

Thats the premise of the game. Stop, read that again. Read it as many times as necessary to understand what that point means.

See this is about the GAME. Not the customers use of it.

The GAME purports to be a Pro Football Simulation. It therefore needs to have game results and game performance that reflects what one expects from a Pro Football Simulation.

You do not have 255-0 games in Pro Football, nor 6 or 10 or 20 Fumbled returns or 6 KR TDs etc etc etc.

So let me make sure I have this clear... "EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE GAME IS NOTHING BUT A PRO FOOTBALL PLAYER BECAUSE THE GAME IS ABOUT PRO FOOTBALL"

So you are telling me a level 1 dot should perform like an NFL player? You are telling me a level 72 dot should never force 20 fumbles on a level 1 dot because "this is Pro Football" and the sim shouldnt allow for it?



Originally posted by yello1
Originally posted by
I will say it again... what is the point of building dots if the end-game difference between dots is negligible?

You know I never ever EVER FRAKKING SAID NEGLIBLE

Why do you keep saying you are a homosexual????

What you never said that????

Well I am just going to keep pretending you did because thats what I feel like arguing about.

Annoying and stupid isnt it?

Do I make myself clear?

Read my replies above to see what I actually DID say. Narrowing the range to realistic results is not the same as negligible. The NFL is filled with stars and duds. But they still dont run up 255 point wins and 6 KR TDs a game. They DO get 20-30 point wins and maybe 2 KR TDs. The latter is what GLB should allow - between the WORST match ups - and the former should never happen in the game at all ever no matter what the match up. Because the game is a pro football sim and a pro football game at its worse never runs the score or stats up that high.

You know I never ever EVER FRAKKING SAID YOU SAID NEGLIBLE

Why do you keep saying you have a learning disability????

What you never said that????

Well I am just going to keep pretending you did because thats what I feel like arguing about.

Annoying and stupid isnt it?

Do I make myself clear?



I know its hard for you, Ken1, to understand that what you are suggesting makes extreme build differences negligible in performance (whether you say/acknowledge/understand it or not) but it is what it is.


Originally posted by yello1
Slow ass?

110-120-130 speeds are slow assed? Many with an additional 15% from ST VA.

Really?????

Well maybe I am. CLEARLY I am because I am asking in this section for advice on how to build the ST (as opposed to the rest where I am talking about the game simulation which has nothing to do with that subject despite your fixation with it).

The only slower guys (speeds ranging from 70-100 IIRC) are the ones in the DL spots. I was told to use O Linemen there. Other than the STOP Centers (who are all speedier) I do not have O line men with speeds over 100. Do you? Or is it incorrect to put O Line men there.

See to me shouldnt they with their high agility and strength and blocking be stopping the coverage players BEFORE they run past them? Isnt that the point?

Every other player on ST is 110 at least and most are over 120 and up to the 130 range (KR being higher of course).

What is wrong with that? What was I told that was incorrect?

I know that replay is confusing... but watch it again... the other teams dots are much faster. Clearly, what you think "should be" fast is not.

Why would you think I would help you at this point (its not like I havent already told you what is wrong with your setup... yet you still wont listen)? Besides it is much more fun to watch someone who thinks they are so intelligent not understand something so glaringly obvious/easy.



Originally posted by yello1
Originally posted by

If you are going to continue to debate this then at least stay on topic... what your team did on kickoffs has nothing to do with how shitty you punt return team is.

Its the same players in the same basic slots is why I bring up the KR issue.

Have you even ever watched a KR and/or a PR replay? They are nothing a like. Yet another point to which you prove that you have no clue what you are talking about.


Originally posted by yello1
First as to watch mimic others, if I cant see the builds, how can I do that??? This is why the game mechanics need to be more open. But thats another thread.

I feel like I am talking to a child. You dont have to see their builds to see that the speed of your dots are not working... that your dots are not fast enough. Someone with half a brain and an ounce of common sense would conclude that their dots are not fast enough from watching that replay.


Originally posted by yello1
But the OTHER players, the ones who ARE fast are ALSO being beaten just as badly - hell sometimes worse. So how does your logic explain a 125 speed Tight End etc being run around?

At some point it will sink in that those players are not fast. Apparently you ignored the fact that your fastest dot was 32ish on the speed script and Dev's slowest player was hitting 35ish speed. Again how do you expect any of your current punt return team players to keep up with their blocking assignment.


Originally posted by yello1
And, again, 255-0 scores and 6-10-20 KR FFs KR TDs is broken no matter how bad my builds or DC is.

Really isnt more to say when you continually make ridiculous statements like this... your telling me that if you built a returner with 10 carrying and 10 strength that he should not fumble 6+ against the best hard hitters in the game?

Originally posted by yello1
Let me try to set this aside for all to grok.

GLB is a simultion of pro football.

GLB is not a simulation of what would happen if Pro Football Players occassionally played girls soccer teams.

Every single dot on every single virtual field in every single GLB game should be considered a pro football player and modelled by the game mechanics as one.

The role of players is to make either a bad pro player or a good pro player. No matter how badly a player does his job, the dots that result should never be worse than a bench warming NFL player. Not a girl scout.

Same same bad pro game plan or a good pro game plans. No matter how bad your game plan, the results should be NFL esque. Not NBA esque.

The role of the GLB code is to make that happen.

If its not happening, its the fault of the GLB code - not the players.

I actually feel sorry for you. As much as you THINK that is how the game SHOULD BE... it will NEVER be that way. It is not a matter of understanding YOUR vision for the game (your broken record has been clear from the get go)... it is a matter of getting you to accept that that will never happen.

Maybe this will help you understand that a level 1 dot will never be considered an "NFL" player. There is this league in GLB called "PeeWee" that is composed of dots that start at level 1. Bort/GLB's vision of the game is a player development where dots grow from beginner football to hopefully pro quality football (I say hopefully because not all end-game dots result in "pro quality" just like not all peeked football players make the Pros in RL). Dots DO NOT start at pro quality. Look at the names of the leagues as dots progress up the ladder... Prep, University, Minors, etc. The game is and always will be this way. A level 72 dot vs a level 1 dot will NEVER reflect a pro/nfl interaction... it will ALWAYS reflect that of a nfl player vs a peewee player.

Originally posted by beenlurken
I actually feel sorry for you. As much as you THINK that is how the game SHOULD BE... it will NEVER be that way. It is not a matter of understanding YOUR vision for the game (your broken record has been clear from the get go)... it is a matter of getting you to accept that that will never happen.

Maybe this will help you understand that a level 1 dot will never be considered an "NFL" player. There is this league in GLB called "PeeWee" that is composed of dots that start at level 1. Bort/GLB's vision of the game is a player development where dots grow from beginner football to hopefully pro quality football (I say hopefully because not all end-game dots result in "pro quality" just like not all peeked football players make the Pros in RL). Dots DO NOT start at pro quality. Look at the names of the leagues as dots progress up the ladder... Prep, University, Minors, etc. The game is and always will be this way. A level 72 dot vs a level 1 dot will NEVER reflect a pro/nfl interaction... it will ALWAYS reflect that of a nfl player vs a peewee player.



More importantly, just because a dot is the same age as another dot it does not mean they are even CLOSE to each other in skill level.

Lebron James and I are the same age, but we are not even CLOSE to the same skill level. He shouldn't have to slow down his game because I can't compete... I should play in a different league where I have a better chance. That is the entire point of this conversation. If my dots can't keep up in wl, I expect for htem to get their asses kicked up and down the field.

Originally posted by beenlurken

So let me make sure I have this clear... "EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE GAME IS NOTHING BUT A PRO FOOTBALL PLAYER BECAUSE THE GAME IS ABOUT PRO FOOTBALL"

So you are telling me a level 1 dot should perform like an NFL player? You are telling me a level 72 dot should never force 20 fumbles on a level 1 dot because "this is Pro Football" and the sim shouldnt allow for it?



That IS what the "box" advertises. Pro Football Simulation. Not "Trying to Get Into Pro Football" simulation.

And, even if you want to treat the lower tiers that Bort has gone back and called "Prep" "University" now to be those lower tiers, then the players STILL have to BECOME pro football players REGARDLESS OF HOW WELL YOU BUILD THEM - because once again the game is not "Trying to Get Into The Pros" simulation.

No one is here paying cash dollars to play Try Outs. Its not what its a sim of. And its not what the market exists for. You dont buy John Maddens Spring Training for a reason.

You can LOL at that all you want, but its reality.

"I didn't make the team" is not an acceptable game result by any standard.

Originally posted by


I know its hard for you, Ken1, to understand that what you are suggesting makes extreme build differences negligible in performance (whether you say/acknowledge/understand it or not) but it is what it is.

You can skip this ken1 bullsht, I have no idea who that is so its a waste of electrons and finger tendons.

And how the feck can you say it has to make build differences neglible? You think the only two possible outcomes in the game are set by God to be BLOW OUT or Coin Toss????

I don't even know what to say about that. Its mind numbingly baffling.

Of COURSE you can make the build differences less extreme and STILL have them matter. All you do is reduce the percentage effects. If right now a 1 strength difference means a 1% chance of a pancake, make it a 0.5% chance or .9% or whatever it needs to be to generate NFL like results and not fantasy never happened on a real football field results. All it takes is changing some numbers in the code.

Originally posted by
I know that replay is confusing... but watch it again... the other teams dots are much faster. Clearly, what you think "should be" fast is not.

Why would you think I would help you at this point (its not like I havent already told you what is wrong with your setup... yet you still wont listen)? Besides it is much more fun to watch someone who thinks they are so intelligent not understand something so glaringly obvious/easy.



Because I thought you might not be simply the argumentative so and so you are so desperately trying to prove you are. And it would help you prove your point about how its the builds and not the system. Or not.

Originally posted by
Have you even ever watched a KR and/or a PR replay? They are nothing a like. Yet another point to which you prove that you have no clue what you are talking about.

And yet they still use the same stats, and the same players, in the pros and in GLB no?

Originally posted by
I feel like I am talking to a child. You dont have to see their builds to see that the speed of your dots are not working... that your dots are not fast enough. Someone with half a brain and an ounce of common sense would conclude that their dots are not fast enough from watching that replay.

Someone is the child here to be sure.

What you see in a replay is comparative results, effected by a slew of variables including VAs and SAs and gear. If I see a Guard in a game get blown away speed wise - or the opposite - I really cant draw much from that because I do not know what his build was (STOP, or not, good or not) and the same as to his opponent. Looking at others replays only gets you so much information.

Originally posted by
At some point it will sink in that those players are not fast. Apparently you ignored the fact that your fastest dot was 32ish on the speed script and Dev's slowest player was hitting 35ish speed. Again how do you expect any of your current punt return team players to keep up with their blocking assignment.

Well, first off I kinda expected them to lay a block and hold it because the other player is IN FRONT OF THEM to begin with. You shouldnt have to chase down your assignment, you run INTO him face to face and hold him there or knock his ass down. Thats how we did it when I played punt return teams anyway. If he gets past you, you already lost since a block from behind is illegal. I wasnt up front though, maybe its not like that up thar, dont recall. Maybe thats my DL error, but if so its shared by others because that advice about what goes on the DL was from GLB pro successful players.

Secondly, I have already noted the speeds in use are 120-130 for the non DLs, one 110. Now call me crazy but that seems like a lot to me given that these players have to be built to have other stats high as well both for ST and regular play. Are you saying that you need wide out speed in all of your ST players or you will cough up 6 fumbles a game against good teams???? If so thats pretty crazy stuff. And more evidence of how shitty the simulation is, I might add.


Originally posted by
Really isnt more to say when you continually make ridiculous statements like this... your telling me that if you built a returner with 10 carrying and 10 strength that he should not fumble 6+ against the best hard hitters in the game?

Well obviously there are extremes, some pre-requisites. But even then the system should have brakes on bad match ups that come into play to simulate what a coach would do in that situation (fair catch all the time, sub in some one else etc).

However I am talking about someone built as a ball carrier, in the right position and archtype. Yes even with the damn near ALGs alone he should not cough up the ball that many times. The sim should be built to prevent it because the sim is being built to generate realistic results. The very worst build in its position should be your base line bench player at that position, some guy who barely made it into the league. How those guys fare on the field should be how your crummiest possible build should fare.

And that doesn't even matter, since we are not talking about builds even remotely that bad.

That the sim is broken is beyond obvious.

Originally posted by beenlurken
Originally posted by yello1

Let me try to set this aside for all to grok.

GLB is a simultion of pro football.

GLB is not a simulation of what would happen if Pro Football Players occassionally played girls soccer teams.

Every single dot on every single virtual field in every single GLB game should be considered a pro football player and modelled by the game mechanics as one.

The role of players is to make either a bad pro player or a good pro player. No matter how badly a player does his job, the dots that result should never be worse than a bench warming NFL player. Not a girl scout.

Same same bad pro game plan or a good pro game plans. No matter how bad your game plan, the results should be NFL esque. Not NBA esque.

The role of the GLB code is to make that happen.

If its not happening, its the fault of the GLB code - not the players.

I actually feel sorry for you. As much as you THINK that is how the game SHOULD BE... it will NEVER be that way. It is not a matter of understanding YOUR vision for the game (your broken record has been clear from the get go)... it is a matter of getting you to accept that that will never happen.

Maybe this will help you understand that a level 1 dot will never be considered an "NFL" player. There is this league in GLB called "PeeWee" that is composed of dots that start at level 1. Bort/GLB's vision of the game is a player development where dots grow from beginner football to hopefully pro quality football (I say hopefully because not all end-game dots result in "pro quality" just like not all peeked football players make the Pros in RL). Dots DO NOT start at pro quality. Look at the names of the leagues as dots progress up the ladder... Prep, University, Minors, etc. The game is and always will be this way. A level 72 dot vs a level 1 dot will NEVER reflect a pro/nfl interaction... it will ALWAYS reflect that of a nfl player vs a peewee player.



As noted above, even if you have the pee wee - hs college - pro training progression at the end of the day (the level 69-70-72 level) all players need to be in the top tier pros.

If not you will lose customers, because thats what they came here to play and thats what "pro football simulation" suggests.

Again, its not "Maddens NFL Trying To Make The Team" for a reason - no one would buy that game.

The plummeting player base should tell you that if you doubt it.

From the GLB main page . . .

"Goal Line Blitz is a web-based American Football MMORPG. We've written a custom football simulation engine to provide you with the ultimate football experience on the web."

No where in there does this game say that it is a "pro-football" simulation. It is a football simulation that begins at peewee and end with Pro and World leagues and encompasses everything in between. But because it has human team owner and human player builder, even at the pro-level you end up with professional quality teams and, oh, shall we say, less than professional quality teams.

You say that in the pros (or even college) you don't see 255-0 scores with massive turnovers. This is true, but that's because you have pro-quality players going against pro-quality players playing for teams coached by pro-quality coaches. In GLB you don't have that. You've got that sometimes, but because of league structuring difficulties, you've often got pro-quality teams playing against high school quality teams, and that probably would result in some pretty outlandish scores in real life.

Looking at scores around the pro-leagues, you can pretty much point to 4 scenarios . . .

1. A 255-0 score is the result of under-leveled players playing in a league they don't belong in. League structure problem
2. A 125-0 score is the result of poorly-built and poorly coached players playing against well-built and well coached players. Build and coaching problem.
3. A 65-7 score is the result of well built but poorly coached players. Tactical problem.
4. A 48-35 score is the result of two well-built and well-coached teams going against each other with one making the right decisions at the right times. There might be some SIM issues with tactics that influence the final score, but they are usually minimal at worst.

Originally posted by bug03
Originally posted by beenlurken

I actually feel sorry for you. As much as you THINK that is how the game SHOULD BE... it will NEVER be that way. It is not a matter of understanding YOUR vision for the game (your broken record has been clear from the get go)... it is a matter of getting you to accept that that will never happen.

Maybe this will help you understand that a level 1 dot will never be considered an "NFL" player. There is this league in GLB called "PeeWee" that is composed of dots that start at level 1. Bort/GLB's vision of the game is a player development where dots grow from beginner football to hopefully pro quality football (I say hopefully because not all end-game dots result in "pro quality" just like not all peeked football players make the Pros in RL). Dots DO NOT start at pro quality. Look at the names of the leagues as dots progress up the ladder... Prep, University, Minors, etc. The game is and always will be this way. A level 72 dot vs a level 1 dot will NEVER reflect a pro/nfl interaction... it will ALWAYS reflect that of a nfl player vs a peewee player.



More importantly, just because a dot is the same age as another dot it does not mean they are even CLOSE to each other in skill level.

Lebron James and I are the same age, but we are not even CLOSE to the same skill level. He shouldn't have to slow down his game because I can't compete... I should play in a different league where I have a better chance. That is the entire point of this conversation. If my dots can't keep up in wl, I expect for htem to get their asses kicked up and down the field.

Yes, thats life. But we are here to escape that dreariness and have some escapism.

But this is fantasy game life. We are not paying money to be told we suck, we are paying money to allow us to imagine or play out or whatever you want to call it, if we were controlling a team of guys who DONT suck.

We are here playing a Pro Football Simulation for that reason.

If the game we are here playing winds up handing us something less, a beer league simulation because we didn't build our dots and our OC DC didnt build the chart or plays just right, well then thats a serious problem for the game because its going to lose those players because thats NOT what they paid money to play.

Game sells itself as GLB Profootball Simulation. It needs to provide that, for ALL players no matter how bad they are.

#1 - The game does NOT sell itself as a "pro-football" simulation. It sells itself as an "American Football" simulation.

#2 - Even at the pro-level, nothing says "American" more than you get rewarded for doing your job well. Build your dots right, put them in the right places with the right plays, and you get professional results. That seems not only very American, but also very pro-football as well.

Originally posted by McGruffHawk
From the GLB main page . . .

"Goal Line Blitz is a web-based American Football MMORPG. We've written a custom football simulation engine to provide you with the ultimate football experience on the web."

No where in there does this game say that it is a "pro-football" simulation

You stopped a paragraph too soon, did you not?

From that very same main page bolded for emphasis and italicized comments by me.

Goal Line Blitz is a web-based American Football MMORPG. We've written a custom football simulation engine to provide you with the ultimate football experience on the web.

Do you love fantasy football Show me a Fantasy Football league about high school or Pop Warner? Ever wished you could play with the pros? Join other football fans from around the world in building the player and team of your dreams You dream about Pop Warner much ball do you?, right here.

....Create and name a custom player,....Sign with teams from around the world and negotiate your contracthmm what kind of player negotiates and signs and a contract? I know - PRO players
...Set ticket and concession pricesYou ever sell seats for your Pop Warner games? Not so much, eh?

Sign, cut, and trade players again with the signing, and also trading, no one trades players but for the Pros

So lets drop the nonsense about it not being sold as a Pro Football Simulation. Its nothing BUT a pro football simulation.

Originally posted by
even at the pro-level you end up with professional quality teams and, oh, shall we say, less than professional quality teams.

Yes you do. I am not saying all players have to be equally perfect. But the game results should reflect Pro game results, not Pros versus Girl Scouts.

Originally posted by
You say that in the pros (or even college) you don't see 255-0 scores with massive turnovers. This is true, but that's because you have pro-quality players going against pro-quality players playing for teams coached by pro-quality coaches. In GLB you don't have that.

Stop

That bolded part is the problem.

The problem is that you HAVE to have that.

Not because you winnow out the few players who manage to meet your top end build expectations to play together.

But because the system allows for nothing BUT pro quality by ONLY simulating a range of performance that reflects pro level skills.

Let me try to spell it out because apparently that is more necessary than I thought.

Lets say - just for giggles and grins I am not going to google ...

Wow sorry just saw the clock, will get back to that point and the rest of your post. Wasted more time than I have at the moment on this....

Originally posted by yello1
Stop

That bolded part is the problem.

The problem is that you HAVE to have that.




I agree that in an ideal world, you would have that. Equally well-built teams coached by equally well-prepared coordinators. But there is an inevitable human element to this game that is revealed when you get level 45 dots going against level 72 dots. Or level 72 dots whose builders haven't bothered to learn the process going against level 72 dots whose builders have done the legwork and/or been coached to build good dots. Or lame-duck coordinators that point the finger at the developers rather than figure out how to get better going against quality coordinators who have used networks to learn and get better and respond to game changes.

Bottom line is that when two teams go against each other that are well-built and well-coached, it is usually a good game that closely (although the scores and stats are extreme to accomodate the stat-hogs) simulates professional football.

The problem isn't the SIM (which is not to say that there aren't some issues there). The problem is a league structure that can't mitigate the human element of under-leveled/poorly built/poorly coached teams. If they can fix the league structure, then much of the problems you are bringing up go away.

I haven't read past page 1, what did I miss?