Warrior General Games

Yeah, I have to agree with beenlurken here. I can pretty much tell you how every interaction works, what to do to improve your chances of winning those rolls and the best options to make sure when you do lose those rolls, you don't lose them often - and it all comes down to builds. Player building is the most important part of this game (as it should be) and just because a dot has a high or low EL doesn't mean much at all.

More aeq = less sp and vice versa.

The average person isn't going to have the time to earn a major in dot building. That's what keeps growth down.

Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
The average person isn't going to have the time to earn a major in dot building. That's what keeps growth down.

But if you do not reward quality dot building, and make it so that average dots perform the same as great dots then the game is just a big coin flip.

This is such a common debate for MMOs. The hardcore players that spend alot of time want their hard work to be rewarded. However, in doing so, the game designers make it so that the casual player feels they have no shot and are disenfranchised. Then the game designers make it easier for the casual player to get an equal reward, and the hardcore guys start wondering why they bother.

I have never seen a good solution (and I have been playing MMORPGs for 12+ years) to this issue, and I doubt GLB is going to suddenly find it.

Originally posted by Plankton
Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag

The average person isn't going to have the time to earn a major in dot building. That's what keeps growth down.

But if you do not reward quality dot building, and make it so that average dots perform the same as great dots then the game is just a big coin flip.

This is such a common debate for MMOs. The hardcore players that spend alot of time want their hard work to be rewarded. However, in doing so, the game designers make it so that the casual player feels they have no shot and are disenfranchised. Then the game designers make it easier for the casual player to get an equal reward, and the hardcore guys start wondering why they bother.

I have never seen a good solution (and I have been playing MMORPGs for 12+ years) to this issue, and I doubt GLB is going to suddenly find it.

word

Listen, I hear exactly what Wolfpack is saying. Some of you may not know me, some of you may very well remember me. I owned a team here in Oceania for a quite some time. We did very well at lower level leagues but when we got to Pro we soon there realized that our gameplans and players were just not 'up to par'. I haven't got a problem admitting that, but we damn sure put forth every bit of effort.

There's nothing I hate more than when you come and crush someone and they say "we didn't gameplan", especially when it's a team that is good. Well, actually the only thing I hate more than that is when someone beats you and then claims they didn't gameplan. Listen, I know WSR wasn't the greatest team on earth but we held our own, just not well enough to win a championship here. But to tell us you didn't gameplan? Bull. Like Wolf said, it cheapens everything for everyone.

Unfortunately when you get down to the real point of this discussion, I've always been a huge supporter of Oceania but it's getting filled more so with teams that quite frankly just don't care anymore. If we can't compete vs. other leagues and even amongst ourselves, why should we preserve it? The answer is simple, we shouldn't.

Originally posted by Jack Riley
Listen, I hear exactly what Wolfpack is saying. Some of you may not know me, some of you may very well remember me. I owned a team here in Oceania for a quite some time. We did very well at lower level leagues but when we got to Pro we soon there realized that our gameplans and players were just not 'up to par'. I haven't got a problem admitting that, but we damn sure put forth every bit of effort.

There's nothing I hate more than when you come and crush someone and they say "we didn't gameplan", especially when it's a team that is good. Well, actually the only thing I hate more than that is when someone beats you and then claims they didn't gameplan. Listen, I know WSR wasn't the greatest team on earth but we held our own, just not well enough to win a championship here. But to tell us you didn't gameplan? Bull. Like Wolf said, it cheapens everything for everyone.

Unfortunately when you get down to the real point of this discussion, I've always been a huge supporter of Oceania but it's getting filled more so with teams that quite frankly just don't care anymore. If we can't compete vs. other leagues and even amongst ourselves, why should we preserve it? The answer is simple, we shouldn't.

Hey Jack!

Originally posted by Plankton
But if you do not reward quality dot building, and make it so that average dots perform the same as great dots then the game is just a big coin flip.

This is such a common debate for MMOs. The hardcore players that spend alot of time want their hard work to be rewarded. However, in doing so, the game designers make it so that the casual player feels they have no shot and are disenfranchised. Then the game designers make it easier for the casual player to get an equal reward, and the hardcore guys start wondering why they bother.

I have never seen a good solution (and I have been playing MMORPGs for 12+ years) to this issue, and I doubt GLB is going to suddenly find it.

So very, very true.

Originally posted by Otega
Originally posted by Plankton

But if you do not reward quality dot building, and make it so that average dots perform the same as great dots then the game is just a big coin flip.

This is such a common debate for MMOs. The hardcore players that spend alot of time want their hard work to be rewarded. However, in doing so, the game designers make it so that the casual player feels they have no shot and are disenfranchised. Then the game designers make it easier for the casual player to get an equal reward, and the hardcore guys start wondering why they bother.

I have never seen a good solution (and I have been playing MMORPGs for 12+ years) to this issue, and I doubt GLB is going to suddenly find it.

So very, very true.

Easiest thing would have been to get rid of ALG's. It would still reward the guys who know what they are doing, as they will take the best advantage of training, but it would not hinder the noobs in buildings dots also.

Also, there needs to be a way to have guys build a dot on any day and have the end game build not be hindered. Hard when there is a small few day window to really build a player and have new people stick around.

Originally posted by Jack Riley
Listen, I hear exactly what Wolfpack is saying. Some of you may not know me, some of you may very well remember me. I owned a team here in Oceania for a quite some time. We did very well at lower level leagues but when we got to Pro we soon there realized that our gameplans and players were just not 'up to par'. I haven't got a problem admitting that, but we damn sure put forth every bit of effort.

There's nothing I hate more than when you come and crush someone and they say "we didn't gameplan", especially when it's a team that is good. Well, actually the only thing I hate more than that is when someone beats you and then claims they didn't gameplan. Listen, I know WSR wasn't the greatest team on earth but we held our own, just not well enough to win a championship here. But to tell us you didn't gameplan? Bull. Like Wolf said, it cheapens everything for everyone.

Unfortunately when you get down to the real point of this discussion, I've always been a huge supporter of Oceania but it's getting filled more so with teams that quite frankly just don't care anymore. If we can't compete vs. other leagues and even amongst ourselves, why should we preserve it? The answer is simple, we shouldn't.

Its one thing to give the better builder an advantage.

Its another to make that advantage so ridiculously large that a returner runs over four or five guys on his way to the end zone like a highschooler playing with kindergarteners.

GLB is, deny it all they like, supposed to play like the NFL. Thats what we are here to play. That means close low scoring games where "on any given Sunday" even the crappiest team can win.

Narrow the difference in game effect between skill levels. A 1 point difference in speed should be sufficiently effected by random chance and the other variables that the faster player is only going faster slightly more often than not, while a ten point difference usualy means faster but not always and even a twenty point difference might on any given play and dependent on motivation etc mean a slower run though rarely and at worst not be such a pull away that its a mazaratti to a horse and buggy.

Add to that coaching and interest level dedications (taking games off to rest for better games) injuries and a better mechanic to make game time and play to play adjustments so that the broken play is not a source of TDs for the opposition several times a game etc.

Put that altogether and you can get more interesting realistic play.

yello1, I agree with your point of view. At the same time, the state of the game is what it is. So in order to be good, you have to play to the system, not against it. Now more than ever, people not only don't play to the system, they don't even try. They don't gameplan, and we're left to a washed up group of 'talent' and the same teams win all the trophies.

Originally posted by yello1
Its one thing to give the better builder an advantage.

Its another to make that advantage so ridiculously large that a returner runs over four or five guys on his way to the end zone like a highschooler playing with kindergarteners.

GLB is, deny it all they like, supposed to play like the NFL. Thats what we are here to play. That means close low scoring games where "on any given Sunday" even the crappiest team can win.

Narrow the difference in game effect between skill levels. A 1 point difference in speed should be sufficiently effected by random chance and the other variables that the faster player is only going faster slightly more often than not, while a ten point difference usualy means faster but not always and even a twenty point difference might on any given play and dependent on motivation etc mean a slower run though rarely and at worst not be such a pull away that its a mazaratti to a horse and buggy.

Add to that coaching and interest level dedications (taking games off to rest for better games) injuries and a better mechanic to make game time and play to play adjustments so that the broken play is not a source of TDs for the opposition several times a game etc.

Put that altogether and you can get more interesting realistic play.



Thats not the problem.... the problem is that it takes 2 years to build dots... if you fuck them up then you have to wait another 2 years to "try" to fix what didnt work (considering you really dont know if something works until you see them play at the highest levels... you might already be building younger players but they most likely wont have this new knowledge planned for in their builds).

If it took less time to build dots (and learn from them), you would see more building better dots.

Originally posted by beenlurken
Originally posted by yello1

Its one thing to give the better builder an advantage.

Its another to make that advantage so ridiculously large that a returner runs over four or five guys on his way to the end zone like a highschooler playing with kindergarteners.

GLB is, deny it all they like, supposed to play like the NFL. Thats what we are here to play. That means close low scoring games where "on any given Sunday" even the crappiest team can win.

Narrow the difference in game effect between skill levels. A 1 point difference in speed should be sufficiently effected by random chance and the other variables that the faster player is only going faster slightly more often than not, while a ten point difference usualy means faster but not always and even a twenty point difference might on any given play and dependent on motivation etc mean a slower run though rarely and at worst not be such a pull away that its a mazaratti to a horse and buggy.

Add to that coaching and interest level dedications (taking games off to rest for better games) injuries and a better mechanic to make game time and play to play adjustments so that the broken play is not a source of TDs for the opposition several times a game etc.

Put that altogether and you can get more interesting realistic play.



Thats not the problem.... the problem is that it takes 2 years to build dots... if you fuck them up then you have to wait another 2 years to "try" to fix what didnt work (considering you really dont know if something works until you see them play at the highest levels... you might already be building younger players but they most likely wont have this new knowledge planned for in their builds).

If it took less time to build dots (and learn from them), you would see more building better dots.

Oh positively.

Or better yet, let you CORRECT your bad builds enroute.

Its pretty stupid that if Lil Johnny eats too much ice cream and becomes a fat load in Pee Wees that he can't ever hope to recover and become twinkle toes by high school.

Originally posted by Jack Riley
yello1, I agree with your point of view. At the same time, the state of the game is what it is. So in order to be good, you have to play to the system, not against it. Now more than ever, people not only don't play to the system, they don't even try. They don't gameplan, and we're left to a washed up group of 'talent' and the same teams win all the trophies.

Well, the idea would be to petition the Game Masters to change the system.

As the little Green Guy said, Its Our Only Hope.

Or was that the fat crazy old dame?

The Pro leagues are too watered down anymore. Hate to say it but I think it will change to the proposed idea.