j10er
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Originally posted by whatje
the point isn't that tackling doesn't do anything, it's that other attributes are many times more valuable. it's not a stupid argument at all to say high tackling and low other stats is a bad combination because high tackling necessarily implies lower speed, agility, str, etc.
You can say that about any attribute. Higher X means lower Y. But, there comes a point of diminishing returns and opportunity costs for those higher attributes.
With a DT's natural level gains, it's very easy to have all of those attributes 70+, or whatever you'd like them at, by level 48. It just takes planning.
Originally posted by whatje
tackling helps with tackling, and to an extent forcing fumbles i guess? even if that's true (which i am not certain of and don't really care to hear why i should be certain of it)
Bort specifically said that Tackling is the number one factor in forcing fumbles.
Originally posted by whatje
i have never heard or seen any evidence from anyone that tackling helps a) prevent you from being susceptible to fakes (see: vision)
100% true. Hell, it just makes sense.
And I can't tell you how many times CBs and Safeties have complained about being juked, considering their Agility/Vision is so high. Guess what's low?
Originally posted by whatje
b) increases chances to shed block (see: str, agi, SAs)
100% true. Starting to become common knowledge.
In the blocking equation, what do you think the Blocking attribute matches up against?
Originally posted by whatje
c) increases ability to knock passes loose (see: strength, although i'm not sure how this is a useful skill for d-lineman anyway)
Confirmed by Bort - Tackling is the key attribute that determines KLs.
I agree with your second part, though - that particular component of Tackling is not useful for DTs.
Originally posted by whatje
d) increases chances to fire SAs (carrying doesn't do this either from anything that i've seen or heard).
Bort said Carrying helps trigger SAs.
It's not a big stretch to think that Tackling does the same on the defensive side of the ball. I have witnessed evidence of this, but it's never been confirmed.
I've been following Bort's posting since Season 2, and I've written most of it down (wish I had started earlier). There's pure gold in his posts, it just takes a TON of digging and time.
the point isn't that tackling doesn't do anything, it's that other attributes are many times more valuable. it's not a stupid argument at all to say high tackling and low other stats is a bad combination because high tackling necessarily implies lower speed, agility, str, etc.
You can say that about any attribute. Higher X means lower Y. But, there comes a point of diminishing returns and opportunity costs for those higher attributes.
With a DT's natural level gains, it's very easy to have all of those attributes 70+, or whatever you'd like them at, by level 48. It just takes planning.
Originally posted by whatje
tackling helps with tackling, and to an extent forcing fumbles i guess? even if that's true (which i am not certain of and don't really care to hear why i should be certain of it)
Bort specifically said that Tackling is the number one factor in forcing fumbles.
Originally posted by whatje
i have never heard or seen any evidence from anyone that tackling helps a) prevent you from being susceptible to fakes (see: vision)
100% true. Hell, it just makes sense.
And I can't tell you how many times CBs and Safeties have complained about being juked, considering their Agility/Vision is so high. Guess what's low?
Originally posted by whatje
b) increases chances to shed block (see: str, agi, SAs)
100% true. Starting to become common knowledge.
In the blocking equation, what do you think the Blocking attribute matches up against?
Originally posted by whatje
c) increases ability to knock passes loose (see: strength, although i'm not sure how this is a useful skill for d-lineman anyway)
Confirmed by Bort - Tackling is the key attribute that determines KLs.
I agree with your second part, though - that particular component of Tackling is not useful for DTs.
Originally posted by whatje
d) increases chances to fire SAs (carrying doesn't do this either from anything that i've seen or heard).
Bort said Carrying helps trigger SAs.
It's not a big stretch to think that Tackling does the same on the defensive side of the ball. I have witnessed evidence of this, but it's never been confirmed.
I've been following Bort's posting since Season 2, and I've written most of it down (wish I had started earlier). There's pure gold in his posts, it just takes a TON of digging and time.
whatje
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yeah um...where? other than you stating it, i've never seen any of this. it's cool that you say bort said it...and i don't think you're lying. however, i would never operate under the assumption that you are stating the truth. and yes, dt's could have all 3 above 70 by level 48 but it would come at a pretty substantial cost to either strength, agility, or the host of secondary and tertiary attributes that help their performance overall.
and i'm pretty sure you are alone in thinking CBs need to universally up tackling (although this doesn't mean that you are wrong).
i'll concede bort did say tackling was #1 component in forcing fumbles, i've heard that before that was my bad
and i'm pretty sure you are alone in thinking CBs need to universally up tackling (although this doesn't mean that you are wrong).
i'll concede bort did say tackling was #1 component in forcing fumbles, i've heard that before that was my bad
Edited by whatje on Jun 22, 2009 16:10:17
Edited by whatje on Jun 22, 2009 15:50:07
j10er
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Originally posted by whatje
yeah um...where?
Haha - do your own leg work
It took me over 8 Seasons of stalking Bort and writing all of this down to gather this information.
But, seriously, you can start with a basic forum search on "bort". He's mentioned (or re-mentioned) a lot of this in the past few months. The Bort Stalker thread should also prove to be helpful.
Originally posted by whatje
other than you stating it, i've never seen any of this. it's cool that you say bort said it...and i don't think you're lying. however, i would never operate under the assumption that you are stating the truth.
Understandable. I wish I could say all of this came from me, but I can't. I associate with a lot of addicted, successful GLBers
Originally posted by whatje
and yes, dt's could have all 3 above 70 by level 48 but it would come at a pretty substantial cost to either strength, agility, or the host of secondary and tertiary attributes that help their performance overall.
You can have two attributes above 80 naturally and two above 70 naturally (str, agi, tack, and speed) by level 48, while still having having Vision 55+ and Stam/Conf soft-capped. Or some other combo. But you don't have to sacrifice anything to get Tackling up, is the whole point. Just plan intelligently.
Originally posted by whatje
and i'm pretty sure you are alone in thinking CBs need to universally up tackling (although this doesn't mean that you are wrong).
Haha - not even close to alone, but I never said that. Soft-capped tackling some time between level 50 and 55 is fine for CBs, and it does help tremendously with KLs.
One last question to think about. What does Strength do that Tackling doesn't?
yeah um...where?
Haha - do your own leg work
It took me over 8 Seasons of stalking Bort and writing all of this down to gather this information.But, seriously, you can start with a basic forum search on "bort". He's mentioned (or re-mentioned) a lot of this in the past few months. The Bort Stalker thread should also prove to be helpful.
Originally posted by whatje
other than you stating it, i've never seen any of this. it's cool that you say bort said it...and i don't think you're lying. however, i would never operate under the assumption that you are stating the truth.
Understandable. I wish I could say all of this came from me, but I can't. I associate with a lot of addicted, successful GLBers
Originally posted by whatje
and yes, dt's could have all 3 above 70 by level 48 but it would come at a pretty substantial cost to either strength, agility, or the host of secondary and tertiary attributes that help their performance overall.
You can have two attributes above 80 naturally and two above 70 naturally (str, agi, tack, and speed) by level 48, while still having having Vision 55+ and Stam/Conf soft-capped. Or some other combo. But you don't have to sacrifice anything to get Tackling up, is the whole point. Just plan intelligently.
Originally posted by whatje
and i'm pretty sure you are alone in thinking CBs need to universally up tackling (although this doesn't mean that you are wrong).
Haha - not even close to alone, but I never said that. Soft-capped tackling some time between level 50 and 55 is fine for CBs, and it does help tremendously with KLs.
One last question to think about. What does Strength do that Tackling doesn't?
whatje
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most of the stuff you said tackling does, strength does. there's also the advantage of not being pancaked as a DT. the fact that your information comes from other people and isn't actually from bort also really dissuades me from believing it (again i'm not trying to take a shot at your credibility). there's no way i'm sorting through the forums to find bort-posts since someone always links it anyway :-p
Barnsie
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Originally posted by j10er
But you don't have to sacrifice anything to get Tackling up, is the whole point. Just plan intelligently.
this
But you don't have to sacrifice anything to get Tackling up, is the whole point. Just plan intelligently.
this
Underdawg08
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Originally posted by j10er
One last question to think about. What does Strength do that Tackling doesn't?
Stop thinking you know dick about this game.
Str does a whole hell of a lot more than tackling does.
One last question to think about. What does Strength do that Tackling doesn't?
Stop thinking you know dick about this game.
Str does a whole hell of a lot more than tackling does.
j10er
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Originally posted by UnderDogs
Originally posted by j10er
One last question to think about. What does Strength do that Tackling doesn't?
Stop thinking you know dick about this game.
Str does a whole hell of a lot more than tackling does.
Lol - I've had a hell of a lot more success at the top levels than you have, in every aspect. Or, maybe, you're just trying your hardest to live up to your moniker
After you've calmed down a bit, why don't you try answering the simple question?
Originally posted by j10er
One last question to think about. What does Strength do that Tackling doesn't?
Stop thinking you know dick about this game.
Str does a whole hell of a lot more than tackling does.
Lol - I've had a hell of a lot more success at the top levels than you have, in every aspect. Or, maybe, you're just trying your hardest to live up to your moniker
After you've calmed down a bit, why don't you try answering the simple question?
j10er
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Originally posted by whatje
most of the stuff you said tackling does, strength does. there's also the advantage of not being pancaked as a DT. the fact that your information comes from other people and isn't actually from bort also really dissuades me from believing it (again i'm not trying to take a shot at your credibility). there's no way i'm sorting through the forums to find bort-posts since someone always links it anyway :-p
Since Tackling is part of the blocking equation, it also helps avoid pancakes.
I'd say about 85% of the information I've mentioned IS from Bort, just spread out over 9 or so seasons. The rest comes from some of the top agents in the game. Heck, my team was a Top 25 team every season it was in the Pros, and I did everything except the DAI (which is the main reason I got burnt out - did too much). I'm not exactly a noob
most of the stuff you said tackling does, strength does. there's also the advantage of not being pancaked as a DT. the fact that your information comes from other people and isn't actually from bort also really dissuades me from believing it (again i'm not trying to take a shot at your credibility). there's no way i'm sorting through the forums to find bort-posts since someone always links it anyway :-p
Since Tackling is part of the blocking equation, it also helps avoid pancakes.
I'd say about 85% of the information I've mentioned IS from Bort, just spread out over 9 or so seasons. The rest comes from some of the top agents in the game. Heck, my team was a Top 25 team every season it was in the Pros, and I did everything except the DAI (which is the main reason I got burnt out - did too much). I'm not exactly a noob
whatje
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yeah, i'm not saying you are or in any way trying to denigrate your performance. i just haven't seen any tangible evidence that tackling is more than somewhat useful for tackling. i don't get why it would be a part of the blocking equation - that doesn't seem logical except to tackle a ball carrier going past - and even if it is there's no way its as important as agility and and strength. and while pumping tackling to 70+ may have its merits, it is necessarily a sacrifice since every point spent can't be used somewhere else.
Edited by whatje on Jun 23, 2009 11:42:52
SofaKingNice
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Originally posted by j10er
Since Tackling is part of the blocking equation, it also helps avoid pancakes.
I'd say about 85% of the information I've mentioned IS from Bort, just spread out over 9 or so seasons. The rest comes from some of the top agents in the game. Heck, my team was a Top 25 team every season it was in the Pros, and I did everything except the DAI (which is the main reason I got burnt out - did too much). I'm not exactly a noob
I'm not trying to take anything away from what you say, or what you claim Bort says, but where is this high tackling DT that is a block shedding, fumble forcing, fake reading maniac? It might be true, I'm not claiming to know that its not, but from my own personal account, I've seen DTs with tackling in the 48-60 range and high strength/speed/agility perform much better and be much more disruptive against the pass and the run than guys with 3rd capped+ tackling. Admittedly, I've seen a lot more lower tackling players than high, but I have seen both, and I have never been impressed with the high tacklers.
Bort says a lot of things, and if you followed him closely enough, your build would be a mess, because hes constantly talking up a different attribute. Plus, over 9 seasons, the sim has changed so much that things he mentioned in the past aren't necessarily current. Overall, I tend to find Bort to be unreliable, and I am generally skeptical of bortisms unless I see an actual build that backs what he says up.
Since Tackling is part of the blocking equation, it also helps avoid pancakes.
I'd say about 85% of the information I've mentioned IS from Bort, just spread out over 9 or so seasons. The rest comes from some of the top agents in the game. Heck, my team was a Top 25 team every season it was in the Pros, and I did everything except the DAI (which is the main reason I got burnt out - did too much). I'm not exactly a noob
I'm not trying to take anything away from what you say, or what you claim Bort says, but where is this high tackling DT that is a block shedding, fumble forcing, fake reading maniac? It might be true, I'm not claiming to know that its not, but from my own personal account, I've seen DTs with tackling in the 48-60 range and high strength/speed/agility perform much better and be much more disruptive against the pass and the run than guys with 3rd capped+ tackling. Admittedly, I've seen a lot more lower tackling players than high, but I have seen both, and I have never been impressed with the high tacklers.
Bort says a lot of things, and if you followed him closely enough, your build would be a mess, because hes constantly talking up a different attribute. Plus, over 9 seasons, the sim has changed so much that things he mentioned in the past aren't necessarily current. Overall, I tend to find Bort to be unreliable, and I am generally skeptical of bortisms unless I see an actual build that backs what he says up.
AC
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Created: Season 6, day 9 (Build open)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1080600
Future SP's will go to Speed.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1080600
Future SP's will go to Speed.
whatje
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Originally posted by AC_31
j10er makes a better argument than the rest of you. Sorry, J10er for the win.
ok.
Originally posted by ac_31
Created: Season 6, day 9 (Build open)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1080600
Future SP's will go to Speed.
wat?
j10er makes a better argument than the rest of you. Sorry, J10er for the win.
ok.
Originally posted by ac_31
Created: Season 6, day 9 (Build open)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1080600
Future SP's will go to Speed.
wat?
Underdawg08
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Originally posted by j10er
Lol - I've had a hell of a lot more success at the top levels than you have, in every aspect. Or, maybe, you're just trying your hardest to live up to your moniker
After you've calmed down a bit, why don't you try answering the simple question?
You've had a lot more success at the higher levels eh? So like 1 or two statistical trophy is more success?
I'll tell ya what. I will continue to run my S.S. with 70 str and 49 tackling.
You continue to think tackling does a lot.
As I win another MVP this season IN AAA. Come back and talk to me when you win your first.
Lol - I've had a hell of a lot more success at the top levels than you have, in every aspect. Or, maybe, you're just trying your hardest to live up to your moniker
After you've calmed down a bit, why don't you try answering the simple question?
You've had a lot more success at the higher levels eh? So like 1 or two statistical trophy is more success?
I'll tell ya what. I will continue to run my S.S. with 70 str and 49 tackling.
You continue to think tackling does a lot.
As I win another MVP this season IN AAA. Come back and talk to me when you win your first.
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