Warrior General Games

Originally posted by willb285
I really don't think people "get" what super elusive is yet or how it works.

I know Bort said you need 70 agility to make it work, but that is only so you don't get tackled for a loss every time. SE is about lateral movement or agility and not speed. When you run on SE, the script is always looking for lateral movement to throw off defenders first instead of creating separation. Always. That is why we see it bug out sometimes once a runner is in the open field. The script is still telling the HB to use that agility to make cuts that the defenders cant. I would say you need to have agility at 80 and more likely 90 for it to work without a lot of bugs, the more quick cut you have and first step the better also.

Really, the old elusive is governed by speed and the super elusive is on the opposite end and relies heavily on agility. I really don't know how else to make it more clear. I've been studying footage of backs with low and high agility, and the higher agility backs on super elusive are always faster. If you are running 5 yards sideways then you need that extra agility to allow yourself to boost to full speed faster to negate the sudden advantage the defense has with you running laterally. High agility backs can also make those open field "bug" plays where they slow down and cut when it's 1 on 1 for a TD, the higher agility back simply is too good at cutting and the defender falls down. That is what SE is all about folks, not speed, agility. A moderate speed of in the 90's is enough with the boost in acceleration you get from the agility and cuts. It's what makes SE work.

I totally disagree, I don't know what footage of low and high agility HBs you've watched but from my experiences of watching my many HBs the lower agility (60-63 agility) HBs play better.

AGILITY DOES NOT MAKE YOU FASTER, ONLY SPEED DOES. Agility only affects how much speed you lose when you change direction (which is what you do on Super Elusive, change direction each tick).

My HBs in these replays both have 100+ speed, about 61 agility and 10 Quick Cut:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=398711&pbp_id=2077199
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=395645&pbp_id=2048913
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443576&pbp_id=1192828
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443576&pbp_id=1194680
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443576&pbp_id=1202987

Their diagonal, lateral and general movement is much faster than my other HB with 92 speed, 72 agility and 9 Quick Cut:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443976&pbp_id=1457487
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443976&pbp_id=1466069
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443976&pbp_id=1466771
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443973&pbp_id=603191
(There no big play replays of this HB this season on Super Elusive because he doesn't play very well, even in cupcake games).

I never said agility makes you faster, I said the higher agility backs that run on super elusive are faster. I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I'm not an idiot. The backs with higher agility are faster on super elusive because, like I said, they have better acceleration than those that don't which translates to they reach their top speed faster in cuts which translates to a faster run in traffic on super elusive mode.

72 agility is not enough to run super elusive well, you need mid 80's to lower 90's to look good, as well as an appropriate amount in quick cut and first step. From talking with a couple of guys running super elusive also, a common theme is 50+ vision and 50+ carrying for the backs that are doing well on super elusive right now. It's not rocket science.

We are all higher levels now, so 70 agility is not high anymore. I don't see why this is so confusing. It's not working cause your build is for a speed elusive and not a super elusive, change direction, Barry sanders type build. Think the difference between a sneaky back and a speed back in the NFL. It's different. One build will not work in all situations and super elusive needs max agility instead of 100+ speed...

Should you be able to run super elusive well with 70 agility? Maybe, but that is not how the SCRIPT works now.

I don't think you're an idiot, I'm just saying that even Super Elusive still relies on speed more than agility in my opinion.

Take Nuge20's HB for example: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=606547

He has 75+ speed and 110+ agility including VAs, in theory he should be great on Super Elusive but watching replays of him so far this season on Super Elusive., his lack of speed seems to be hurting him more than the high agility is helping:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=441121&pbp_id=78413
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=441121&pbp_id=83591
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=441121&pbp_id=78888

The simple fact that defenders are faster means that they'll catch him before he can use extremely highagility to elude them.

The problem for all this stems from not being balanced. Yea you still do need speed and I said that earlier.

"A moderate speed of in the 90's is enough with the boost in acceleration you get from the agility and cuts. It's what makes SE work."

A good super elusive build will have mid 80's and higher agility, speed in the 90's, and you need to have enough skill points to have trained vision up as well to 50+, carrying also needs to be moderate.

This is a script obviously designed for the future of the game and if you don't have a high level player that has had enough skillpoints to be balanced then, no, it won't work. You need the full package of elusive skills, elusive SAs, and VAs to run super elusive and right now the problem again is that not enough people have an agility in the higher 80's with still keeping their speed high as well as dumping lots of points in supporting SAs. The need to be able to break tackles on super elusive still exists and many times, super elusive will require you to break a tackle to get to open field or for that extra little boost. That is where the SAs and the agility come in. If you have a high enough agility to run on SE well, then all of your break tackle skills will automatically work better, thus you will be slippery and with the combination of quick changes of direction and vision to spot holes, unstoppable. You need the right build to be good, just like with the power backs and brusier, you need the right build to be ridiculous.

I really think that's what it is. You need a good build to run it well and a lot of people are investing too many skillpoints to max something out while neglecting something else. I have 95 speed, 88 agility, 6-5-5-5-5 in my elusive tree 2----- in power, with 55 vision and 50+ carrying, and I have been going nuts on super elusive. Sometimes I need to break tackles to get into open field, but that is where the SAs come in. You need the total package to make up for some of the script bugs and if you arn't a high enough level, its just not going to happen.

I think I am siding with the more speed the better. at the present time I think that is the best option

todays game, not so good, not so bad... still on super elusive

I'm thinking about changing from 100+ speed, 70+ agility, 50+ vision and 8 QC to 90+ speed, 80+ agility, 50+ vision and 8 QC, thoughts? If it didn't work out I could always just switch back.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=394360


including Va's my back has


112.47 speed
84.08 agility
49.56 vision
49.42 carrying
11 quick cut
9 juke



so....wtf is the issue?

conclusion, super elusive sucks balls, or something aint right

Originally posted by Knicksfan20
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=394360


including Va's my back has


112.47 speed
84.08 agility
49.56 vision
49.42 carrying
11 quick cut
9 juke



so....wtf is the issue?

conclusion, super elusive sucks balls, or something aint right

I think the issue was with a fast, high vision defense and elusive rushing. It just doesn't seem to work for the most part. Oh, and your LG and C were getting reverse pancaked pretty easily...

Running on combo lets even elusive backs plow into fast defenders and dive for a few yards. This is where most combo yardage comes from.

That being said, at this point in the game I don't think there is any advantage to being elusive over power.

Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by Knicksfan20

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=394360


including Va's my back has


112.47 speed
84.08 agility
49.56 vision
49.42 carrying
11 quick cut
9 juke



so....wtf is the issue?

conclusion, super elusive sucks balls, or something aint right

I think the issue was with a fast, high vision defense and elusive rushing. It just doesn't seem to work for the most part. Oh, and your LG and C were getting reverse pancaked pretty easily...

Running on combo lets even elusive backs plow into fast defenders and dive for a few yards. This is where most combo yardage comes from.

That being said, at this point in the game I don't think there is any advantage to being elusive over power.

ok..then explain why i have bee complete shit the ENTIRE preseason?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=421333&pbp_id=3533453

it worked for me in this play

lame

Originally posted by eaglezcrazy05
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=421333&pbp_id=3533453

it worked for me in this play

Damn, you dominated those guys that are over 20 levels lower than your HB.

Good Job

Originally posted by theinfamous
Originally posted by eaglezcrazy05

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=421333&pbp_id=3533453

it worked for me in this play

Damn, you dominated those guys that are over 20 levels lower than your HB.

Good Job

ehh its the best complement if gotten so far i will take that as a good job

Originally posted by Viscount
Originally posted by willb285

I really don't think people "get" what super elusive is yet or how it works.

I know Bort said you need 70 agility to make it work, but that is only so you don't get tackled for a loss every time. SE is about lateral movement or agility and not speed. When you run on SE, the script is always looking for lateral movement to throw off defenders first instead of creating separation. Always. That is why we see it bug out sometimes once a runner is in the open field. The script is still telling the HB to use that agility to make cuts that the defenders cant. I would say you need to have agility at 80 and more likely 90 for it to work without a lot of bugs, the more quick cut you have and first step the better also.

Really, the old elusive is governed by speed and the super elusive is on the opposite end and relies heavily on agility. I really don't know how else to make it more clear. I've been studying footage of backs with low and high agility, and the higher agility backs on super elusive are always faster. If you are running 5 yards sideways then you need that extra agility to allow yourself to boost to full speed faster to negate the sudden advantage the defense has with you running laterally. High agility backs can also make those open field "bug" plays where they slow down and cut when it's 1 on 1 for a TD, the higher agility back simply is too good at cutting and the defender falls down. That is what SE is all about folks, not speed, agility. A moderate speed of in the 90's is enough with the boost in acceleration you get from the agility and cuts. It's what makes SE work.

I totally disagree, I don't know what footage of low and high agility HBs you've watched but from my experiences of watching my many HBs the lower agility (60-63 agility) HBs play better.

AGILITY DOES NOT MAKE YOU FASTER, ONLY SPEED DOES. Agility only affects how much speed you lose when you change direction (which is what you do on Super Elusive, change direction each tick).

My HBs in these replays both have 100+ speed, about 61 agility and 10 Quick Cut:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=398711&pbp_id=2077199
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=395645&pbp_id=2048913
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443576&pbp_id=1192828
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443576&pbp_id=1194680
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443576&pbp_id=1202987

Their diagonal, lateral and general movement is much faster than my other HB with 92 speed, 72 agility and 9 Quick Cut:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443976&pbp_id=1457487
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443976&pbp_id=1466069
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443976&pbp_id=1466771
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=443973&pbp_id=603191
(There no big play replays of this HB this season on Super Elusive because he doesn't play very well, even in cupcake games).

What is their difference in Vision?