Warrior General Games

The disagreements and differing viewpoints in this thread have made it one of the best in the Safety forum.

Originally posted by quantofsol2008
If you can't see the difference on that snap jump, you're blind. Asheme's guy reacts right as the ball is snapped, your guy waits a few ticks before he gets moving.

I think speed and agility are king in GLB. Vision will surely help a safety with a bunch of things, but overall I think speed and agility are worth more. Agility is perhaps undervalued for DBs who have to change directions quickly. I've noticed quite often how DBs with a ton of speed get beat because the WR turns or comes back for the ball and the DB can't start/stop quickly enough to get back and make the PD.

The snap jump is exactly the same. if you think his is getting a faster jump you're imagining shit. I watch both plays 3 times in a row, then back and forth then over and over. I am not seeing his guy get a faster jump on the snap at all. matter of fact,when I put them side by side next to each other and flip between then, and forget which one is which, I can't point out who is who.

it looks like he might achieve top speed a little quicker. That could be tied into vision I guess, but probably more to agility.

Those plays are so close. Let's say my guy is a little behind because of having a lot less vision. I bet his doesn't have the 61 str mine has though. So to sacrifice a little vision, to get maybe a little tiny bit better, to have 61 str instead is worth it for me.

And ,after all is said and done, his is level 50, where mine is level 38. to look almost as good as a level 50 at level 38 should speak volumes. I am real curious just how much vision he has, because if he has 70 or 80 where Mine has 49, then vision really isn't worth it to me.

His dot takes an almost immediate angle to the QB, I mean, his first step is in that direction on the first tick of the play.

Your dot starts off on the same tick, yes, but his first few steps are forward (probably has to do with the play called here) and then he goes towards the QB.

So I think what I saw is mainly that your dot might not react as quickly towards the ball. It takes your dot the extra tick to angle himself towards the ball. The other guy's dot takes that angle right away.

I'm not disagreeing with your idea overall. I do think some people pump vision up too much before worrying about physical stuff like speed/agility. I'm just saying, there is a difference in those 2 plays.

I think speed>agility>vision

Originally posted by UnderDogs
Originally posted by Asheme

One thing vision is good for is getting a jump at the snap:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292310&pbp_id=12455839
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292310&pbp_id=12457234

woo pee do those plays show nothing for vision. MY guy can do the same thing with 49 vision.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=310778&pbp_id=12447856

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=310778&pbp_id=12448456

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=310778&pbp_id=12449633

Wow, you are arrogant... The guy says nothing to you and you feel the need to attack right away.

Your guy is the best ever....

ITT: My SS will now be attacked, cause he isn't as good as UnderDogs.

Originally posted by Trashy Menace
Originally posted by UnderDogs

Originally posted by Asheme


One thing vision is good for is getting a jump at the snap:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292310&pbp_id=12455839
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292310&pbp_id=12457234

woo pee do those plays show nothing for vision. MY guy can do the same thing with 49 vision.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=310778&pbp_id=12447856

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=310778&pbp_id=12448456

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=310778&pbp_id=12449633

Wow, you are arrogant... The guy says nothing to you and you feel the need to attack right away.

Your guy is the best ever....

ITT: My SS will now be attacked, cause he isn't as good as UnderDogs.

Shut up fool. i am going to boost next season and I am looking for concrete evidence bringing vision to the next cap is worth it. So far I have seen none. just shut up. I am not saying my build is better than his. The words never came out of my mouth. mind your own god damn business you little child.

Originally posted by UnderDogs


Shut up fool. i am going to boost next season and I am looking for concrete evidence bringing vision to the next cap is worth it. So far I have seen none. just shut up. I am not saying my build is better than his. The words never came out of my mouth. mind your own god damn business you little child.

Imagine that, UnderDogs getting defensive and attacking again.

Who is acting like the little child?

Originally posted by quantofsol2008
His dot takes an almost immediate angle to the QB, I mean, his first step is in that direction on the first tick of the play.Your dot starts off on the same tick, yes, but his first few steps are forward.


(probably has to do with the play called here)



and then he goes towards the QB.


Probably a lot of factors besides the play. Maybe he plays on pass focus. My guy always plays on run focus, and power tackling every game. I know the vision isn't hampering him in run support for sure. He has over 20 TFL's. Then I notice he has enough to be a force in the pass game (46 pd's). I have been looking at his level 50 like the last 5 games he has played. I don't see much difference between the 2. I still would like to know what his vision is, because if it is 70 or 80 it isn't worth it to me. (i still stand by that)

Originally posted by UnderDogs
AS FAR AS THE SNAP JUMP GOES? no! I thought that's what we were talking about.
Yeah, the snap jump. Both players are in what looks like a Cover 1 SS blitz w/ medium coverage distance. The QB in your play takes 18 ticks to get the pass off, in mine the QB takes 13 ticks, which means my SS got to the QB five ticks quicker than yours did, a lot of it having to do with the more direct angles he took, immediately at the snap.

Originally posted by UnderDogs
I don't see much difference between the 2.
I'll grant you that it is subtle, much more subtle than the difference between, say, first capped speed and third capped speed, but I'd argue that it's just as important. For the SS, it's all about angles to the play, and vision helps to take better angles, and to go through the progressions of built-in shitty GLB pathing quicker. In a tough league like SA Pro (and USA Pro before that) the margin for error is very slim, one bad angle/slow reaction could mean a TD and a loss.

Edi: added some plays to illustrate what I'm talking about (zero wasted steps/ticks):

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=353620&pbp_id=5816577
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=353620&pbp_id=5820429
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=353620&pbp_id=5821685

Originally posted by Asheme
Originally posted by UnderDogs

I don't see much difference between the 2.
I'll grant you that it is subtle, much more subtle than the difference between, say, first capped speed and third capped speed, but I'd argue that it's just as important. For the SS, it's all about angles to the play, and vision helps to take better angles, and to go through the progressions of built-in shitty GLB pathing quicker. In a tough league like SA Pro (and USA Pro before that) the margin for error is very slim, one bad angle/slow reaction could mean a TD and a loss.

Edi: added some plays to illustrate what I'm talking about (zero wasted steps/ticks):

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=353620&pbp_id=5816577
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=353620&pbp_id=5820429
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=353620&pbp_id=5821685


I still don't think my guy is handicapped by 49 vision. I am also still wondering how much Vision you have?


http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=310755&pbp_id=11722017

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=310755&pbp_id=11719450

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=310755&pbp_id=11721087

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=310761&pbp_id=5712261

Originally posted by Trashy Menace
Originally posted by UnderDogs



Shut up fool. i am going to boost next season and I am looking for concrete evidence bringing vision to the next cap is worth it. So far I have seen none. just shut up. I am not saying my build is better than his. The words never came out of my mouth. mind your own god damn business you little child.

Imagine that, UnderDogs getting defensive and attacking again.

Who is acting like the little child?

you're the only person in here getting pissy. you have no idea what's going on. Do you have anything constructive to add to the conversation? NO? ok then grow the hell up.

Maybe you should read my comments again....

I haven't gotten pissy at all.

All I did was call you out for what you are.

And here is what you respond with:
"mind your own god damn business you little child."
"grow the hell up."

Again... Who needs to grow up?

Originally posted by UnderDogs
I still don't think my guy is handicapped by 49 vision. I am also still wondering how much Vision you have?
I don't think he's handicapped by it, not at all, I'm just saying there is a benefit to investing in vision past the first cap (meaning it isn't worthless). You've said you built your SS to support the run, so first capped vision could be enough for that build, I built my SS to excel more in pass coverage, since his first six seasons were spent behind one of the best D-lines in GLB at the time (back when defense had the advantage on the run game), there weren't many runs that got past the LOS. One of the things that helped, was high vision/Superior Vision. I noticed he read developing pass plays quicker, and broke on the intended receiver much faster the more I pumped those two things up.

To answer your question, though, he's at about 70 base vision atm.

Originally posted by Trashy Menace
Maybe you should read my comments again....

I haven't gotten pissy at all.

All I did was call you out for what you are.

And here is what you respond with:
"mind your own god damn business you little child."
"grow the hell up."

Again... Who needs to grow up?

Are you still talking? seriously?

Underdog- I'm way too lazy to go back and search all my plays, but with about 80 vision and 7 supervision i notice my FS moving towards the receiver before the qb throws it a good amount of time. He doesn't always sprint all out (maybe need more confidence? i still don't know what it does that much), but he definitely stops hanging in his zone and edges towards the receiver giving him a good chance to get a PD or immediate tackle. Most of my FS's tackles on receiver are immediate as he touches it. Rarely do i have to go chase a receiver since the vision gets him where the ball is going pretty well (15 in zone specialist helps to so while in zone his vision is higher). Since going from 72-80 with equip, i've noticed a good difference from last year in terms of watching his plays (part of it is zone specialist though)

I'm in zone about 90% of the time i'd say


I don't care much about this argument. But it depends on how your DC uses you also. My FS, is almost always in zone, and his high vision compliments the surrounding defensive players. Since readjusting our defense halfway through the year, we've been playing great D in a really competitive USA AAA2 league and are 2nd in a conference where the #1 USA Pro team came from last season. There is no "ultimate build" like where DE/DT/HB owners look for the new unstoppable build/glitch. You can have a lot of different types of free/strong safteys work well.