Warrior General Games

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
The top QB in Pro2 that was throwing to this dot was a pocket passer arch and didn't have close to 100 strength.

Is this where I point out that this QB only got the ball to this WR about a third of the time?

If I had time (or I were the OC running this team, hint hint), I'd watch some replays and figure out why two-thirds of this QB's throws to this WR were incomplete. Were the CBs and Safeties somehow keeping pace with this WR and swatting the passes down? Was this WR dropping passes, or losing a lot of Knocked Loose rolls? Or was this QB under-throwing, over-throwing, or just plain missing this WR on their throws?

If it's the last one, low Strength could easily be the culprit as Theo pointed out, since less Strength equals lower pass quality on longer throws, while higher Strength equals higher pass quality on longer throws.

But I'm not the OC for this team. Nor should I be.

So you're saying the WR in the OP is even better than his amazing pro leading stats, being dragged down by poor QB play and a bad OC? So you agree with the OP?

Also I think it's inappropriate that you keep rounding down 37% to 33%. Literally closer to 40% than 33% yo.

No WR is ever gonna have a 60% comp% with 29 yards/catch (in the NFL nor GLB).

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Theo, why do you think fast players can get vertical separation but not horizonal separation?

The top QB in Pro2 that was throwing to this dot was a pocket passer arch and didn't have close to 100 strength.

If you go crazy on any one skill, it always comes at the detriment of another. If that wasn't true then build me a WR with 110 speed, 100 agility and 100 catching. Give him decent vision too (70-ish). Then I'll agree with you on deep vs hard cuts. (sorry... got terse. my bad brother.)

When I did scouting I could ALWAYS tell which receivers had good agility (and maybe 1st step and quick cut) and which ones didn't. All I ever had to do is watch them make a hard cut. Even with Quick Cut they struggle to maintain speed and defenders simply close right back down on them, hard and fast. Even now when I watch replays I can still see the difference. DB's built normal have plenty of agility and vision to burn. Generally speaking they're better built than most receivers in those skills. I'm fairly convinced that's why passing is so hard to be highly successful at. When the defenders are better than the receivers then they win the battle rolls. Put two of them in the same area as the one receiver and it's almost a guarantee of failure. 3 gets you picked off... very often. Add to that that a ball in the air is as slow as molasses when compared to the speed a defender closes down and you can bet every pass is hotly contested (unless the DC screwed up). Some, like Ken and others, use catch fakes to get that tiny moment when you can complete a pass.
I asked you in earnest those questions. In his successful plays, what did you see that made it successful. In the failures, why did that happen. That's how I know if the speed is worth chasing or not. Not everything can be explained in just "speed kills" because if that was true then your lad should have 85% completion ratio because he'd be open all the time and his only misses would be drops and bad throws. Since that's not true then WHY he was successful and WHY he failed becomes highly important to either improving a player such as him in the future... or why the project is not feasible or, at least, the gain isn't worth the effort.
TBPH, I hope the answers create adventure in future builds like him. Like others have already posted... I'm not a fan of cookie cutter builds. It's why I build crazy shit too.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
So you're saying the WR in the OP is even better than his amazing pro leading stats, being dragged down by poor QB play and a bad OC?

I dunno. You're the OC, go watch some replays and figure out why the vast majority of the passes from this QB to this WR fell incomplete.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Also I think it's inappropriate that you keep rounding down 37% to 33%. Literally closer to 40% than 33% yo.

Arguing that 37% completion is better than 33% is not quiiiiiite the flex you think it is.

Originally posted by Novus
Arguing that 37% completion is better than 33% is not quiiiiiite the flex you think it is.

I mean, it's like 10% better?

Again, my assertion is this WR is the best in GLB with 37% comp%. If he got to say 45% comp% with a similar yards/catch, he would be even more god-tier. Expecting anything higher shows a lack of proper value for yards per catch and yards per target.

Obviously I am not watching 113 replays. GLB passing (especially deep passing) is hard.

Fwiw we are trialing him with a "deep passer" arch on Sno this season, so we will see if there's a discernable difference.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
I mean, it's like 10% better?

Again, my assertion is this WR is the best in GLB with 37% comp%. If he got to say 45% comp% with a similar yards/catch, he would be even more god-tier. Expecting anything higher shows a lack of proper value for yards per catch and yards per target.

Obviously I am not watching 113 replays. GLB passing (especially deep passing) is hard.

Fwiw we are trialing him with a "deep passer" arch on Sno this season, so we will see if there's a discernable difference.


Wait, wait. I'm trying to understand... (Can't lie I like the build aswell as I've been following the WR and Sno for the entire season as well as I'm trying to get into coordinating and understanding GLB more)

Why would the QB arch have a significant effect on the WR? I thought passing on GLB was almost 90% + coordinating and essentially the builds don't matter as much when in comparison so why would getting a new QB in there have any significant effect?

I mean even the best QB builders our game has ever seen still have QBs that throw well into 15-20 ints a season in WL, so I'm just trying to understand what data could we pull from seeing him with a new QBs?

Originally posted by 88Spam

Wait, wait. I'm trying to understand... (Can't lie I like the build aswell as I've been following the WR and Sno for the entire season as well as I'm trying to get into coordinating and understanding GLB more)

Why would the QB arch have a significant effect on the WR? I thought passing on GLB was almost 90% + coordinating and essentially the builds don't matter as much when in comparison so why would getting a new QB in there have any significant effect?

I mean even the best QB builders our game has ever seen still have QBs that throw well into 15-20 ints a season in WL, so I'm just trying to understand what data could we pull from seeing him with a new QBs?


Builds definitely matter. A large part of the success of top teams is the dots they have. Coordinating plays a huge role as well, but at the end of the day a coordinator has no power over whether the RT allows the DE to pressure the QB, and whether the QB's pass quality + the WR's anti-PD roll can result in a catch.

Even me (as a shitty overrated blowhard OC per this thread) had top WL offenses on 4th Street and TSW, but sandwiched in-between was a season in WL where both WLE Chaos and the infamous Stillwater Woodpeckers had ~8th-10th ranked offenses and a combined 1-31 WL record. If you looked at a RC team's roster then looked at say Death Valley's roster, you'd definitely see a difference in build quality.

What's more, the top teams have been doing this a long time and they generally won't have any "weak" builds on their squad, whereas some of the 2nd tier teams sure might have some S tier dots that'd be at home on the top teams, but there are other dots that aren't quite there

But I agree any s105 data is going to be anecdotal sample-size hell of course, since there are too many moving pieces for a straight comparison. Generally Pocket Passer = does better with pressure which is almost always in existence, while Deep Passer = should have a better deep pass quality score. Obviously the only thing changing from Sno's s104 offense vs s105 offense isn't the QB, as improvements for VA's playcalling and a few dots are warranted, but we figured (even before this thread went off the deep-end) it was worth a try.

I have had the same offense, with different QB's for the first half of the season vs the 2nd half of the season, produce very different results as far as QB productivity. This is a big part of why I'm a huge fan of 80+ confidence on QB's.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
I mean, it's like 10% better?

37% - 33% = 4%
#mathishard

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Again, my assertion is this WR is the best in GLB with 37% comp%. If he got to say 45% comp% with a similar yards/catch, he would be even more god-tier. Expecting anything higher shows a lack of proper value for yards per catch and yards per target.

Catching 37% of your targets is not "god-tier." Period. Stating it is shows an over-valuing of yards per catch and yards per target at the expense of the bigger picture... including your offense's overall performance. You didn't exactly dominate the regular season, and you pretty much got shut down in the playoffs.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Obviously I am not watching 113 replays. GLB passing (especially deep passing) is hard.

It sure is hard. It's even harder when you mistakenly think your offense is already god-tier when it's not.

Originally posted by Novus

37% - 33% = 4%
#mathishard



33% x 10% ~ 37% buddy

Originally posted by Novus

Catching 37% of your targets is not "god-tier." Period. Stating it is shows an over-valuing of yards per catch and yards per target at the expense of the bigger picture... including your offense's overall performance. You didn't exactly dominate the regular season, and you pretty much got shut down in the playoffs.


Again yards per play (aka yards per attempt) is arguably the most important driving factor of successful offenses. Everyone struggled to score vs OPT with only 1 team topping 21 points and 0 teams topping 24 points, so 17 is not the worst score in the proper context.

Sno's season definitely had some highs and some lows (like most teams have). We put 94 pts up on WAR MACHINE despite only 2 other teams topping 27 pts, and zero topping 40 pts. Also 49 and 45 pts were the two highest scores allowed by Brothers-in Arms. To pretend Sno's offense (again #1 in pts scored excluding KC Stags) was not good is simply ignorant. But sure, RC clearly had our number as his reign of dominance continues.


Originally posted by Novus
It sure is hard. It's even harder when you mistakenly think your offense is already god-tier when it's not.


I surely didn't call either of my s104 offenses god-tier, since they were not. I called this dot god-tier, because he was verifiably and irrefutably the best WR in GLB this season, and a big reason why Sno was able to score as many points as they did.

Objectively, my pre-dotpocalypse TSW s96-s98 offenses were god-tier since they averaged 42-45 PPG in WL.

This really was just a dot brag + share thread, not supposed to be a deep dive into why I'm GLB's 3rd best OC, but here is my WL OC resume I guess: https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=5326495&page=1#50069030

You're really having to put a lot of effort into explaining why this dot is "god-tier." God-tier anything is usually pretty obvious, so if you have to explain why something is god-tier, it probably isn't.

I wise but any dot put in WR3 is not god tier. Do it with an WR1 or WR2 receiver and you'll have my admiration forever.

In Defense of Wise, I think he'd've been better off not including stats and just let the build speak for itself. Just looking at the skills, I am impressed. As for stats, that really does depend on supporting dots and the OC... which is why I asked what I did. It might come across as I disapprove of his Dot but that's not true. In some ways we're alike... both of us always seeking something different than just total math based carbon copies. I play devil's advocate a lot because that's how you find answers... even if you don't know the questions yet. "What if" is pretty powerful stuff.

6 Catches for 173 yards and a TD in WL vs SWAT today, for those in this thread that want to pretend this WR isn't anything special.

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/game.pl?game_id=26426

That route is really hard to stop.