Warrior General Games

eh yo bhall. 48 vision necessary for a powerback or can i go lower?

You can go lower for sure and be fine.

okay cool. was gonna stop it at 40. thanks sweetcheeks.

Originally posted by bhall43

edit: tbh with how much up the middle running you do you would probably benefit more from strength than carrying.

This is the thing, it really depends on what you want to do with your pHB. My goal line HB still had a great avg per carrying in WL in Season 38; not as good as the lower levels and I really pounded the ball between the tackles with him, but that's what he was built for. If you're going up the middle, you want Strength.

http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4322837&playoffs=0

So here is my pHB vs. WL @ S39 break tackle status.

1. Alex http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4342615&playoffs=0
Non-hurdle pHB
267 rush, 169 brtk, 0.63 brtk/rush.
break 85 normal tackle, 84 diving tackle.

break normal tackle:
by non-SA : 19, 22.4%
by PT : 41, 48.2%
by LTS : 21, 24.7%
by Stiff : 4, 4.7%

break diving tackle:
by non-SA : 10, 11.9%
by PT : 56, 66.7%
by LTS : 17, 20.2%
by Stiff : 1, 1.2%

2. Catharine http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4349172&playoffs=0
hurdle pHB
351 rush, 212 brtk, 0.60 brtk/rush.
break 96 normal tackle, 116 diving tackle.

break normal tackle:
by non-SA : 39, 40.6%
by PT : 51, 53.1%
by LTS : 3, 3.1%
by Stiff : 3, 3.1%

break diving tackle:
by non-SA : 24, 11.9%
by Hurdle : 70, 60.3%
by PT : 19, 16.4%
by LTS : 3, 2.6%
by Stiff : 0, 0%

Originally posted by bhall43
I dunno...lately I think when it comes to the carrying vs. strength debate, if you are going to add a fake element to your power guy carrying should be higher, if not, strength higher.

Granted both should be at the 100+ and 90+ range so it is really just kinda playing with a couple points that probably doesn't make any sort of huge impact either way.

edit: tbh with how much up the middle running you do you would probably benefit more from strength than carrying.

I can't remember if that debate come to some conclusion, I only remember some people think STR is better and some people don't think so.
Should be a good issue for me to research again..........

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
My PH will be 103 Carrying and 96 strength.
Side note is that speed will end at 86 with +55 from EQ.

So 141 speed
103 carrying +8 from Steady Grip makes 111 Carrying
96 Strength
80 agility

Those 150+ strength Power backs are going the way of the dodo. Having a Power HB fast enough to run sweeps is a necessity in the current sim right now. Add in some blocking WR's and it's game over.

Carrying - 104.1
Strength - 97.5
Speed - 117.26
Agility - 89.1
Jumping - 64.26

Hurdle, Surge, Cover Up = 8
LTS, Stiff Arm = 9
PT = 11
Spin = 6

Carrying gets the added bonus of having a better increase from VAs.

Steady Grip, Bruiser, Quick Feet, and SYM are the mandatory VAs imo, probably also WW.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
For a dot that was created in S14 it was actually pretty decent. It wasn't playing against current builds, it was also playing against other dots that were built in S14.

Did you forget how many times Hurdle was modified since then?

Originally posted by Time Trial
Carrying - 104.1
Strength - 97.5
Speed - 117.26
Agility - 89.1
Jumping - 64.26

Hurdle, Surge, Cover Up = 8
LTS, Stiff Arm = 9
PT = 11
Spin = 6

Carrying gets the added bonus of having a better increase from VAs.

Steady Grip, Bruiser, Quick Feet, and SYM are the mandatory VAs imo, probably also WW.

is that a full build?

Originally posted by bhall43
is that a full build?

Clearly not. I never mentioned his stamina, vision, or confidence.

...

But since I know that's not what you meant, yes... level 79. 1452.64 SP Value. He's averaged over 6 YPC up the gut for the last five seasons in Pro/Elite. Not sure why you would think this is a bad build.

I guess it makes sense now that I look at it a bit more. Just didn't seem like very high carrying or strength numbers for sub 120 speed.

Originally posted by bhall43
I guess it makes sense now that I look at it a bit more. Just didn't seem like very high carrying or strength numbers for sub 120 speed.

Yeah, I certainly could have done this build better, but I think I stopped training too early on some of these builds or I waited too long to stop multi on others.

Originally posted by Time Trial
Did you forget how many times Hurdle was modified since then?

No, I've watched Hurdle very closely and I'm still very unconvinced that it's worth the SP investment.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
No, I've watched Hurdle very closely and I'm still very unconvinced that it's worth the SP investment.

Do you watch my newest data above?

Originally posted by aaasahi
Do you watch my newest data above?

Yes, I'm still unconvinced.
I think the bonus that Hurdle provides isn't very large, and I'm still willing to bet that any dot unlikely to break the tackle on their own is very unlikely to break the tackle with hurdle. The situationalness of the SA just makes me even more wary. If I was building a PHB, I'd just put the points in jumping, speed, powerthrough, surge, and LTS... which is what I am doing. I personlly don't think the bonus from LTs isn't very large either, but it's in tree, and won't be as expensive as Hurdle to update since I have CEQ and have to put some points in it anyways to get to power through.

I don't think it's worth the investment. Just because it shows up in the pbp doesn't mean it provided a major benefit. On my dot before I invested in strength and before I finished capping carrying I saw a huge uptick in broken diving tackles from putting points in jumping, and considering the comparatively cheap cost of getting jumping to 60-80 with multi-training an SP's compared to the 30 SP investment to get Hurdle, which needs 50 jumping anways, it just makes more sense for me to pump jumping and ignore this SA which I find to be very questionable.

Honestly, the only break tackle SA's I think are really worth investing in are Spin, Power Through... and that's it.