Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Black Peter
Should hope so.

But in grand scheme EL doesn't mean squat.

A low EL tells you that your player was built wrong, that IS helpful. It means something. If your 3-aeq 4-major dot has 1350 build value, you are doing it wrong...

Originally posted by Hagalaz
A low EL tells you that your player was built wrong, that IS helpful. It means something. If your 3-aeq 4-major dot has 1350 build value, you are doing it wrong...

Not necessarily. If you chose an Archetype with a minor that needed worked early, you would have an effective level much lower than if you had an archetype in which you only trained the major attributes. For example a power receiver and you want to train speed high, it's going to take a hit to it's effective level.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Originally posted by Black Peter

Should hope so.

But in grand scheme EL doesn't mean squat.

A low EL tells you that your player was built wrong, that IS helpful. It means something. If your 3-aeq 4-major dot has 1350 build value, you are doing it wrong...

says the guy who cant get to the WL.... You can have a 1350 EL dot that is built the right way(attribute AEQ and VA wise), just inefficient. Id take one of those dots over an efficiently built 1400+ dot that isnt exactly what I want. people put too much into the EFF level

Some sick burns in the last few posts.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Not necessarily. If you chose an Archetype with a minor that needed worked early, you would have an effective level much lower than if you had an archetype in which you only trained the major attributes. For example a power receiver and you want to train speed high, it's going to take a hit to it's effective level.

Eh, no. By raising majors first you can get your minor to the same spot with a better EL, so, you're wrong.

Originally posted by O' HappyCow
sats the guy who cant get to the WL.... You can have a 1350 EL dot that is built the right way(attribute AEQ and VA wise), just inefficient. Id take one of those dots over an efficiently built 1400+ dot that isnt exactly what I want. people put too much into the EFF level

Define "can't". I can't scale mount everest either. I also never TRIED. I am sure several of my players could do very well in WL teams.

Also, as I said above, placing the SP in the right places is something that can't be taught. Getting more points to spend (aka higher EL and build value) CAN be taught and -> SHOULD <- be demanded by anyone.

Just imagine how much better those dot builders that know where to spend points would be if they had ONE HUNDRED EXTRA SP TO SPEND!

And how hard is it to get to WL?

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Originally posted by Dr. E

Not necessarily. If you chose an Archetype with a minor that needed worked early, you would have an effective level much lower than if you had an archetype in which you only trained the major attributes. For example a power receiver and you want to train speed high, it's going to take a hit to it's effective level.

Eh, no. By raising majors first you can get your minor to the same spot with a better EL, so, you're wrong.

Originally posted by O' HappyCow

sats the guy who cant get to the WL.... You can have a 1350 EL dot that is built the right way(attribute AEQ and VA wise), just inefficient. Id take one of those dots over an efficiently built 1400+ dot that isnt exactly what I want. people put too much into the EFF level

Define "can't". I can't scale mount everest either. I also never TRIED. I am sure several of my players could do very well in WL teams.

Also, as I said above, placing the SP in the right places is something that can't be taught. Getting more points to spend (aka higher EL and build value) CAN be taught and -> SHOULD <- be demanded by anyone.

Just imagine how much better those dot builders that know where to spend points would be if they had ONE HUNDRED EXTRA SP TO SPEND!

Look buddy, Just because Uncle bort gives an attribute a higher ALG, doesnt mean it makes a dot any better. Confidence and Vision are primary attributes for a few positions where they arent really important at all. Sure if you want to inflate your EFF by wasting SPs in a crap attribute just to have a higher EFF, then by all means, but that doesnt mean its a better dot or that you are doing it the right way.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
And how hard is it to get to WL?

Ask Yello

Originally posted by O' HappyCow
Look buddy, Just because Uncle bort gives an attribute a higher ALG, doesnt mean it makes a dot any better. Confidence and Vision are primary attributes for a few positions where they arent really important at all. Sure if you want to inflate your EFF by wasting SPs in a crap attribute just to have a higher EFF, then by all means, but that doesnt mean its a better dot or that you are doing it the right way.

Something you have to understand about hag is that he has a very low level of logical thinking. He also suffers from cognitive dissonance. We've had discussions before in the Build Advice Forum where I was able to point to a Bort quote expressly stating that Hag was wrong. He wouldn't accept that he was wrong and continued arguing. I then obtained clarification from Bort in a Q&A that Hag was wrong and he still argued with me that he was right.

Originally posted by Hagalaz
Just imagine how much better those dot builders that know where to spend points would be if they had ONE HUNDRED EXTRA SP TO SPEND!
Having 100 higher player value isn't the same thing as having 100 extra skill points.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Not necessarily. If you chose an Archetype with a minor that needed worked early
then you picked the wrong archetype.

Originally posted by jdbolick

then you picked the wrong archetype.


uh read his example and stop trolling

Originally posted by Timetoshine-Metta
uh read his example and stop trolling

No, if jd said he picked the wrong archetype, then he obviously picked the wrong archetype. Stop being wrong.

Originally posted by Timetoshine-Metta
uh read his example and stop trolling

A high speed power WR? I'm not sure that's the best argument for him to make. Or even a good argument. Or if it's even an argument without a definition of high and power WR.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
Something you have to understand about hag is that he has a very low level of logical thinking. He also suffers from cognitive dissonance. We've had discussions before in the Build Advice Forum where I was able to point to a Bort quote expressly stating that Hag was wrong. He wouldn't accept that he was wrong and continued arguing. I then obtained clarification from Bort in a Q&A that Hag was wrong and he still argued with me that he was right.

Ok, options...

A) Tell you again that you were wrong, with proof, and remind you that other people than me told you that you couldn't be 100% sure

B) Insult you, your dog and your family up to the third degree.

Take your pick. I'm through with you. Vermin don't deserve to be given the same respect that humans get.

As to the people who are actually rational, here:

Originally posted by O' HappyCow
Look buddy, Just because Uncle bort gives an attribute a higher ALG, doesnt mean it makes a dot any better. Confidence and Vision are primary attributes for a few positions where they arent really important at all. Sure if you want to inflate your EFF by wasting SPs in a crap attribute just to have a higher EFF, then by all means, but that doesnt mean its a better dot or that you are doing it the right way.

I see you didn't bother reading...

I said you can get the attributes to ...

THE
SAME
SPOT

with more EL.

Let's clarify. The same spot means equal.


e·qual
[ee-kwuhl] Show IPA adjective, noun, verb, e·qualed, e·qual·ing or ( especially British ) e·qualled, e·qual·ling.
adjective
1.
as great as; the same as (often followed by to or with ): The velocity of sound is not equal to that of light.
2.
like or alike in quantity, degree, value, etc.; of the same rank, ability, merit, etc.: two students of equal brilliance.

What this means is that if a dot was built with (totally arbitrary values) 100 90 90 80 80 in five attributes, the second dot, built more efficiently, would have 100 90 90 80 80 in the same attributes but with more spare SP.

Is it clear now?

Equal does not mean higher. It means equal. You can get 87 speed 60 stam 50 con by starting with speed, by starting with stam or by start with con. Which attribute you choose to start with has no impact in the end game target. Your target does not change just because your build strategy changes. Give me a strategy where you started with a minor and I will prove you wrong by getting that attribute to the exact same value while having better attributes all around.

And guess what, I'm not the only one. As stubborn as JD is, he is a good builder, he can explain this probably better than me, english being his native language. Or heck, any good builder understands this!