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Forum > Goal Line Blitz > PSA. GLB is discriminating against female avatars.
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Deathblade
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And as always, the whole argument that "most of the people have left the game because of X on the forums" is a gigantic fallacy.

"Most" of the users that have left didn't even read the forums. Most people left because they got bored of the game, natural attrition. It happens. Maybe a small portion did leave because they couldn't have bouncy boobs in a wet white t-shirt, but I'm guessing that number is infinitesimal.
 
Warhawk
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Originally posted by jdbolick

It not only obviously can, but it clearly has. Plenty of people have left GLB because of annoyance over being told that they can't do this or that, whether it be posts or something else. Honestly, you're just not equipped to handle this sort of argument. If you're going to suck up to the people who run this site then do it and suffer the consequences, but don't suck up and then try to pretend that you're doing it for any legitimate reason.


And if you're going to argue with me don't just resort to stale ad hominems.

As for people having left, yes, obviously. That's not the issue. I had people leave the sports forum I used to run because I had rules against racism, or hardcore pornography, etc. Not a lot of people, but a couple. There's always going to be somebody out there miffed that their preferred interior decorating forum won't allow them to post threads on the evils of abortion, but insofar as a community has an established purpose, the fact that they may drive away a few users by restricting content completely unrelated to that purpose for whatever reason doesn't render that a bad decision.

Plus, you're being unnecessarily vague with your statement about people leaving - of course people have left over being told that they can't do something, but that "something" can include any number of things. We're talking specifically about the type of person who would quit because they are not able to name their team the Boobopolis Supertitties.
 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by Deathblade
Wouldn't say immature. Maybe a lonely perv, to a level of creepiness. That's part of your "charm".

To-may-to, to-mah-to.

Originally posted by
The userbase can't make up their mind if they want professionalism or tits and ass flying everywhere and a bloodbowl on the forums.

There will always be some like CONN CHRIS who campaign for the game to be staid, proper, and boring, but not very many. Most people want freedom to do what they want within reason. Everyone understands that Bort needs to stand firm against nudity and discriminatory speech in order to protect his business, but that's quite different from the kind of stuff you'd see in a GoDaddy commercial.

Originally posted by
Slight inconsistencies within the moderation

It's amusing how you can be comically hyperbolous in one post and then indulge in such extreme understatement the next. Even Pallow admits that the moderation here is a trainwreck.
 
Warhawk
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Originally posted by Deathblade
As far as I'm concerned it's one of the laxest forums I've ever seen, especially as an "official" forum of a company. Most will ban you for a week for any kind of negativity, then suspend you permanently the next time.

Yes, forums that exist for the sole purpose of being a forum and appealing to people that want to use that forum can be a lot more laid back than forums attached to an actual company...but even then, most of them are far more strict than GLB.


This is true. I used to run a pretty lax forum (sports related) myself. There were less rules than here, but, then, the reason I created it in the first place was because of the overabundance of forums where you'd get permabanned if a moderator suspected you might not actually consider every other use to be a special flower.
 
InRomoWeTrust
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Originally posted by jdbolick
Even Pallow admits that the moderation here is a trainwreck.


when in doubt, make something up
 
KingPB
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My wife breast feeds our infant son and it's beautiful, I want that to be my avatar. Is this ok?
 
Deathblade
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Originally posted by jdbolick
There will always be some like CONN CHRIS who campaign for the game to be staid, proper, and boring, but not very many. Most people want freedom to do what they want within reason. Everyone understands that Bort needs to stand firm against nudity and discriminatory speech in order to protect his business, but that's quite different from the kind of stuff you'd see in a GoDaddy commercial.


There's people that blame me not instantly banning people for being snarky as "the downfall of the game". A surprising number actually.

Originally posted by jdbolick
It's amusing how you can be comically hyperbolous in one post and then indulge in such extreme understatement the next.


There's very, very few examples that I see nowadays that make me question the suspension. Almost all of the complaints people have came out with in the open is where they were clearly on the line or even past it, then playing dumb as to why they got a brief suspension.

Like Dub J acting like he was somehow wronged for getting suspended for posting a fake PM when the rules clearly state that you'll still get suspended for posting fake PMs. Or him acting like he was unjustly suspended when he was warned in a thread by Pallow, and continued being an ass in the thread.

Or people making blatantly racist comments, then acting like it's ok because it's only their opinion. Or because they didn't drop the N bomb.
 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by Deathblade
And as always, the whole argument that "most of the people have left the game because of X on the forums" is a gigantic fallacy.

I didn't say "most," but I do know from talking to quite a few that it's not a small number who left because of frustration with the nannification.


Originally posted by Warhawk
And if you're going to argue with me don't just resort to stale ad hominems.

Ad hominems are fun. For instance, someone like you trying to argue with me is comical to begin with because it's so far out of your realistic potential. Regardless, you're acting like multiple people including me didn't already articulate precisely why placing strict limits on avatars is annoying. So yes, it quite clearly does affect enjoyment whether you stubborn choose to deny that or not. You sticking your head in the sand has no actual effect on reality.

Originally posted by
the fact that they may drive away a few users by restricting content completely unrelated to that purpose for whatever reason doesn't render that a bad decision.

It does when there's no positive to offset it, and you haven't even pretended to offer anything of that sort despite me encouraging you to do so. The only rebuttal you've posted thus far is "Bort can do what he wants because it's his site," which as I mentioned is pretty strong evidence that you're out of your depth on this one and should really back away from the argument as quickly as possible. You're letting pride lead you into the deep end when you've shown no ability to swim.
 
Deathblade
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Originally posted by Deathblade
There's very, very few examples that I see nowadays that make me question the suspension. Almost all of the complaints people have came out with in the open is where they were clearly on the line or even past it, then playing dumb as to why they got a brief suspension.

Like Dub J acting like he was somehow wronged for getting suspended for posting a fake PM when the rules clearly state that you'll still get suspended for posting fake PMs. Or him acting like he was unjustly suspended when he was warned in a thread by Pallow, and continued being an ass in the thread.

Or people making blatantly racist comments, then acting like it's ok because it's only their opinion. Or because they didn't drop the N bomb.


My favorite, at least back when I was a mod, was people getting suspended then telling everyone all kinds of stuff that was a blatant lie to try to make themselves look like some sort of martyr.
 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by Deathblade
There's people that blame me not instantly banning people for being snarky as "the downfall of the game". A surprising number actually.

There's no one who blames you for that. There are some who said you played favorites and let Hali people get away with things that others didn't, but few complaints about you involve action, as they're almost entirely about the way you talk to people.

Originally posted by
There's very, very few examples that I see nowadays that make me question the suspension.

Because you've become a caricature of your former self. You reflexively side against any complainer, both because complaints annoy you and because you enjoy the interaction from riling up someone already evidencing some degree of animus. It's not reason that drives you, but boredom.
 
Deathblade
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Originally posted by jdbolick
Because you've become a caricature of your former self. You reflexively side against any complainer, both because complaints annoy you and because you enjoy the interaction from riling up someone already evidencing some degree of animus. It's not reason that drives you, but boredom.


Boredom of the complaints, yeah. Seeing the same people use the same complaints about the moderation they were using 4 years ago gets old. Especially since it's always some kind of persecution complex, as if the admins just really want to get rid of you but need to play games and jump through hoops to do it.

Circle jerks of complaining about that one time a few weeks ago when people got suspended for 12 hours has to be pretty much the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to entertaining posts. Right around sports gambling.

The forums are godawful enough as it is, it doesn't need people making mountains out of mole hills.
Edited by Deathblade on Mar 6, 2013 21:50:27
 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by InRomoWeTrust
when in doubt, make something up

Pallow didn't actually use the word "trainwreck," as I was paraphrasing, but he did mention a great many flaws with the moderation on this site including its grotesque inconsistency, and conceded that his own lengthy absence played a significant part in that. He then said he'd do what he could to fix it just before embarking on a vacation.
 
Dub J
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Originally posted by Deathblade
And as always, the whole argument that "most of the people have left the game because of X on the forums" is a gigantic fallacy.

"Most" of the users that have left didn't even read the forums. Most people left because they got bored of the game, natural attrition. It happens. Maybe a small portion did leave because they couldn't have bouncy boobs in a wet white t-shirt, but I'm guessing that number is infinitesimal.


nope

you single handedly ran every one of them off

i have this on good word

 
Deathblade
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Originally posted by Dub J
IB4DBgetsbolicked


too late
 
Warhawk
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Originally posted by jdbolick
Ad hominems are fun. For instance, someone like you trying to argue with me is comical to begin with because it's so far out of your realistic potential. Regardless, you're acting like multiple people including me didn't already articulate precisely why placing strict limits on avatars is annoying. So yes, it quite clearly does affect enjoyment whether you stubborn choose to deny that or not. You sticking your head in the sand has no actual effect on reality.

It does when there's no positive to offset it, and you haven't even pretended to offer anything of that sort despite me encouraging you to do so. The only rebuttal you've posted thus far is "Bort can do what he wants because it's his site," which as I mentioned is pretty strong evidence that you're out of your depth on this one and should really back away from the argument as quickly as possible. You're letting pride lead you into the deep end when you've shown no ability to swim.


First point, I certainly didn't say it might not be annoying, to a point, to a certain type of person. What I'm suggesting is that you're vastly overstating the part this particular decision would play in someone's analysis of whether to play the game, and ultimately pay to play the game. In no way, shape, or form was cleavage or underboob ever considered a selling point of the game - it's a football game. Just because there may be a small number of people out there who would settle for an inferior product in a game just because that inferior product has more cleavage doesn't mean it's the correct choice.

Second point, ad hominems generally only serve to make the person using them look foolish.

Third point, you are (understandably, given your perspective) underestimating the percentage of the player base who would like to see more restrictions on arguably inappropriate content. To argue that there is no offset is to argue that all, or at the very least the significant majority, agree with your viewpoint regarding less restrictive rules on content - but, that is not the case. There will always be a bit of a push-and-pull between the part of the userbase that would like a more family atmosphere, and the part of the userbase that would like a more free, traditional-internet community where more things are allowed. Hey, I post on 4chan on occasion, I can see the appeal of that kind of thing, but I also see the appeal of highly moderated forums where discussions are micromanaged. I don't want GLB to be either of those things, though. Any change in the application of content rules which we are discussing here is simply a slight shift in the direction of the former part of the userbase, and away from the latter part, but not in such a substantial way that it should seriously affect the userbase itself. Maybe a couple of people quit because they don't like following new rules, maybe a couple people join because it's a better forum for their kids to use. Honestly it's probably a wash in the long run, but that's my point - in the grand scheme of things, is a very minor change, which should not concern people to the extent it seems to be doing except that those people are searching for a cause against which they can campaign.
 
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