Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Anarcho
Yes I know that. I'm not exactly sure what your point is here...

1. the reaction is equally coded. the offense instantly start run blocking and the defenders instantly stop covering and chase after the qb. which never happens in RL. Your suggestion only addresses the def.

2. theres no accountability. scrambling/run qb wont be useful in passing game until bort gives the defenders another option to account for like he might pass it. ur suggestion if it got implemented would be a half ass band aid imo and most likely be taken to far in favor of the offense .

3. a tuck un tuck feature would solve the problem of ppl being mad that there scrambling/run qb being useless in the passing game

Originally posted by Diamond Spade
1. the reaction is equally coded. the offense instantly start run blocking and the defenders instantly stop covering and chase after the qb. which never happens in RL. Your suggestion only addresses the def.

2. theres no accountability. scrambling/run qb wont be useful in passing game until bort gives the defenders another option to account for like he might pass it. ur suggestion if it got implemented would be a half ass band aid imo and most likely be taken to far in favor of the offense .

3. a tuck un tuck feature would solve the problem of ppl being mad that there scrambling/run qb being useless in the passing game



1. I know that. From the replays that I have seen though, the offensive players seem to react later than the defensive players which leaves them without anyone to block. I have yet to see any replay where the offensive player makes a decent block after the defense auto locks on the tucked QB. At some point I would agree that the offense would need a vision check as well. This suggestion only addresses the defense because that's where the large problem is currently.

2. I don't understand the logic here. If defenders have to undergo a vision check to determine if the QB is running or passing, that would be the part where he might pass it. How would this suggestion be more likely to be taken too far in favor of the offense over a straight tuck/untuck mechanism? That would be horrendous for the defense.

3. You want a feature where the defense still automatically swarms the QB, but then the QB can go ahead and still throw it to the 5 completely open receivers? I can imagine that going over very well with DCs. At least with my suggestion, tactics would play a part in the defender's reaction. A tuck/untuck feature would just break the sim.

Originally posted by Anarcho
1. I know that. From the replays that I have seen though, the offensive players seem to react later than the defensive players which leaves them without anyone to block. I have yet to see any replay where the offensive player makes a decent block after the defense auto locks on the tucked QB. At some point I would agree that the offense would need a vision check as well. This suggestion only addresses the defense because that's where the large problem is currently.

2. I don't understand the logic here. If defenders have to undergo a vision check to determine if the QB is running or passing, that would be the part where he might pass it. How would this suggestion be more likely to be taken too far in favor of the offense over a straight tuck/untuck mechanism? That would be horrendous for the defense.

3. You want a feature where the defense still automatically swarms the QB, but then the QB can go ahead and still throw it to the 5 completely open receivers? I can imagine that going over very well with DCs. At least with my suggestion, tactics would play a part in the defender's reaction. A tuck/untuck feature would just break the sim.

for starters passing the vision chk for a 90+ vision secondary wouldnt be hard to do. so bort would have to either force defenders to not react for a couple seconds or make the vision chk impossible to pass making builds irrelevant like he did with int returns.

of course if there was a tuck untuck mechanic, you would have to give defenders another tactic to either stay on their assignment or break off. it would probably make qb spy actually useful.

Originally posted by Diamond Spade
for starters passing the vision chk for a 90+ vision secondary wouldnt be hard to do. so bort would have to either force defenders to not react for a couple seconds or make the vision chk impossible to pass making builds irrelevant like he did with int returns.

of course if there was a tuck untuck mechanic, you would have to give defenders another tactic to either stay on their assignment or break off. it would probably make qb spy actually useful.





ur reading to much into this op just wants defenders in man coverage to not instantly realize that the qb chosen to go from pass mode to run mode.

my ? was not answered so i will ask it again how hard would this vision check be? would builds even matter or would it just be random?

+1 Great suggestion!

Originally posted by Demboyz
ur reading to much into this op just wants defenders in man coverage to not instantly realize that the qb chosen to go from pass mode to run mode.

my ? was not answered so i will ask it again how hard would this vision check be? would builds even matter or would it just be random?

I would rank the difficulty of the vision checks as follows (from easiest to hardest):

1. Defender set to QB spy when QB does anything
2. Defender in man coverage when the QB scrambles
3. Defender in a zone when the QB tucks the ball
4. Defender in a zone when the QB scrambles
5. Defender in man coverage when the QB tucks the ball

Defenders set to man coverage should almost never fail the vision check to leave their coverage unless they are set to a run focus. Then they should fail the vision check a small percentage of the time (maybe 20% or something).

Defenders set to zone coverage should almost never fail the vision check to chase the QB when he tucks the ball unless they are set to pass focus. Then they should fail the vision check a small percentage of the time (again maybe something like 20%).

Defenders set to man coverage should almost always fail the vision check when the QB does tuck and run unless they are set to a run focus.

Defenders set to zone coverage should fail the vision check when the QB scrambles a good percentage of the time (maybe 50%) unless they are set to a pass focus.

So just like the OP states, man coverage with pass focus should basically never leave their coverage when the QB scrambles and zone with run focus should basically never stay with coverage when the QB tucks.

So to answer your question, it shouldn't be hard to pass the vision check provided your settings match with what you want them to do. If you are playing defense against a scrambling QB and you want to shut down the possibility of a scramble, then set your guys to run focus and/or use zone (or continue to use QB spy). If you aren't worried about the scrambler and just want to protect against the big pass play, set your guys to pass focus and/or use man coverage. The vision check should be based on build (vision) and tactics. Maybe some randomness, but not much. I would also hope that the check would scale across leagues (in other words it shouldn't be an automatic fail at the lower levels and automatic pass at the higher levels - it should be balanced).

+1

+1...very effective layout from OP, swayed me from a gray area opinion on this

I think that if this suggestion is not going to be implemented this off season, it should at least continue to be discussed until we can find something that is acceptable to most.

So... bump.

4th page bump.