Warrior General Games

Originally posted by chronoaug
So all in all i'd say that's a pretty solid lvl 67 OT. That's what i gathered from this thread

I think that is the gist, except jd is convinced FS investment should have gone to blocking.and/or another SA

I don't like that much speed on a tackle either, at least until/if Bort fixes the drop point.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by chronoaug

So all in all i'd say that's a pretty solid lvl 67 OT. That's what i gathered from this thread

I think that is the gist, except jd is convinced FS investment should have gone to blocking.and/or another SA

I'm convinced that first step is messed up but if you were to remove it bort would surely fix it right after you made the change.

Originally posted by bug03
I'm convinced that first step is messed up but if you were to remove it bort would surely fix it right after you made the change.
= why I haven't.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by bug03

I'm convinced that first step is messed up but if you were to remove it bort would surely fix it right after you made the change.
= why I haven't.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1822327 holding 30 sp just in case. I swapped out his first step aeq about a month ago

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2161549 - still liking first step

Originally posted by mandyross
I wonder, have you got a statistical analysis of FS and pass blocking that shows it to be a liability, rather than just a bunch select plays taken from a sample over a hundred times greater? ( I just worry that the correlation is not as robust as you espouse, especially as there are still some WL LOTs out there who seem to do well with FS, not encountering the problems you mention.)

As for your blocking comment, if that was directed at me then you should read my post again before pounding at the keyboard.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1833640

Adding FS to this OT made a much greater impact to his play than the AEQ nerf did. And the fun part of it all, I can't fix it. Care to guess at which season that was?

2 seasons in the same league and with FS added, he got revcaked like a bitch.

Edit: The season I got it, he went from 0 in FS, to 10.

Originally posted by calamnet
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1833640

Adding FS to this OT made a much greater impact to his play than the AEQ nerf did. And the fun part of it all, I can't fix it. Care to guess at which season that was?

2 seasons in the same league and with FS added, he got revcaked like a bitch.

Edit: The season I got it, he went from 0 in FS, to 10.



When he went from 11 sacks allowed on 52.8 plays per game to 8 sacks allowed on 67.9 plays per game?

So my guess is between season 24 and season 25

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
still liking first step

My LOT gave up 1 hurry, 2 sack with 8 in first step in USA Pro this season. Not the best level of competition, but his build is not the best: it was already balanced before the ~70 bonus SPs came floating in with the APD changes.

Overall: 88 games, 23 hurry, 17 sack. I can't read too much into these numbers though, as the QB has a build which means he is getting rid of the ball relatively quickly.

I'm not sure that FS is detrimental in any way, but regardless have swapped it out for strong arm now to see how he does with the same team (and league) next season. Build open for a while.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2003955

Originally posted by mandyross
I'm not sure that FS is detrimental in any way
It's common sense. If you had the option to choose, would you rather have your OT drop back right next to the QB before engaging his block or engage as far from the QB as possible?

Originally posted by jdbolick

It's common sense. If you had the option to choose, would you rather have your OT drop back right next to the QB before engaging his block or engage as far from the QB as possible?


If GLB made sense a lot of people would be much better at this game. What should be true and what is true aren't always the same thing.

Also, dropping back fast before picking up the DE often forces blitzing LB to alter path or the OT actually picks him up for a tick or 2 before blocking the DE.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
If GLB made sense a lot of people would be much better at this game. What should be true and what is true aren't always the same thing.
Nevertheless, it is true in GLB as well. You would obviously prefer to have the LT engage earlier. The question isn't whether or not First Step hurts in pass protection, because it clearly does. The question is whether or not the negative outweighs the positives it provides in other areas.

I'm far too discerning to let "common sense" arguments make things clear for me.

As I've said before though, it is an interesting topic and I look forward to seeing how my crappy LOT goes without FS next season.

Originally posted by jdbolick

Nevertheless, it is true in GLB as well. You would obviously prefer to have the LT engage earlier. The question isn't whether or not First Step hurts in pass protection, because it clearly does.


Show me some statistics that backs this up. While it should be better to have the LOT engage earlier, I haven't found that to be true. From what I have seen on teams I'm associated with LOTs with FS tend to give up sacks less frequently than similar builds without it.