Warrior General Games

Originally posted by yello1
As to effective level and different builds, yes of course. But the point you refuse to grok is that BOTH of those builds, and their interaction with each other, have to be within the range of NFL players "builds" and NFL results - because thats what they and their interaction is simulating. If it doesn't, then the coding that allowed and compared the builds is wrong. Not the builds. Not to say that one build cant consistently beat the other. But it can only do it in the NFL range.

What would be the point of building dots then? Please answer that...

Just give us all lvl 72 dots... let us go back to plugging in random %'s with little to no control of the outcomes of games. We will get close games but it will be boring. There is a reason why people want ways to distinguish their dots... a reason why people wanted things like the AI's to separate themselves via gameplanning.


Originally posted by yello1
As far as the guide, I thought listening to others is how one is supposed to learn this secret game? Isn't it how you learned to build your squad?

HELL NO... I learned by reading what Bort has said about the interactions I am most interested about... once I understood how said interactions worked I built my dots to excel in those interactions... once I had a dot capable of making plays I watched a bunch of replays to get an understanding of how the plays worked so that I may use those players to the best of their abilities within those settings. I might listen to what others opinions but I will go and look at their replays and decide for myself whether or not their opinion looks credible.

Really, at one time or another Bort has explained just about every interaction in this game.. or at least to the point where we all have a good idea of what is taking place. There is really no transparency left in this (well, maybe except for someone like you who spends his time bitching in the suggestions forum instead of the forums where Bort and Catch actually explain the game).

Originally posted by yello1
And no I didn't watch the play, because no play is relevant to the point - which is all about the end stats. No play in the game should lead to these stats, period. Because those stats fall outside the realm of what happens in the sport being modelled.

Again, here is your problem... you would rather blindly bitch about something not working then actually analyze the player and figure out what you think you might be doing wrong. You keep referring to the NFL and "real football"... well "real" teams analyze their films and make adjustments. How can you possibly expect for "competitive NFL simulation" when you refuse to watch your replays (ones that we have singled out for you as having mistakes) and make necessary adjustments? If teams were as lazy as you seem to be I am sure we would see what you deem as ridiculous stats too

Originally posted by yello1
As for the play, I will check that out since like it or not its the sim we have at the moment.....


Excuses.. excuses... you are really good at these. The SIM pertaining to PR's has been the same damn thing for a long time... you are making mistakes that should have been corrected 15 seasons ago.

Originally posted by SLZmonster
i think lurken is basically saying, it's a game not real life, instead of complaining about the way it is, you should fix some things to adapt to the way it is, even if it sucks.....is that good for the tl'dr???

Absolutely yes... and to elaborate... IT WILL NEVER BE REAL LIFE. The only way to FORCE real life results would be to make player building and gameplanning essentially irrelevant.

Originally posted by beenlurken
I guess there is no reason for you to stop posting on this subject... at this point its not like it can get any worse for you.


If you cant look at the play that I linked before...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1667086&pbp_id=7830780

... and not recognize immediately what the problem is then you have no business having an opinion on ST.

A) Okay on this, first as to our main debate - try to back up and watch this play after FIRST realizing that

1) This is an NFL game you are watching. Thats what the simulation is, Pro Football in America. BOTH teams are made up of NFL players. An NFL simulation would not have anything else on the field.

2) Have you EVER seen an NFL punt where none of the coverage team is blocked at all??????

Do you get it NOW?

If that was a movie about the NFL you would laugh your azz off at how stupid and unrealistic it looked.

Thats not the result one is trying to achieve when one makes, or plays, a simulation.

As such, the simulation is broken. Needs to be fixed. This is my point. Thank you for finding as clear an illustration of it as that.

And no - you cant blame that on the player. I didnt come here for a game of High Schoolers Versus All Pros. Thats not what the "box" advertised and its not what I would spend money to play. That the game allows it is a betrayal of the games marketing pitch. Thats the Devs fault, not the players.

B So what exactly is the problem here? My players on that field are all speedy strong and fast to varyin degrees. HOW are they being so blown away? And HOW do they then turn around and run three TDs back in the same game against the same squad? (IIRC may have been 2 forget).

Other than the front line Guards and OT, the speeds on my guys are at least 110 mostly in the 120s and over 130 in the back field. Each of these guys are blocker builds, and with hold block gear.

Beyond the fact that the sim should not make them left in the dust by other players who by definition can not be that much differently built, what can I do to make this work better? Is 120-130 speed not fast enough? Blocking 80 to 100 not high enough? Strengths of 100-150 not good enough? Agility? Vision? Wrong Sunglasses? Whats the problem?

Just not seeing how these guys can be that much worse. ST VA may come into play at some positions but several of my guys have that as well.

Need less attack more input here.

Originally posted by beenlurken
Originally posted by SLZmonster

i think lurken is basically saying, it's a game not real life, instead of complaining about the way it is, you should fix some things to adapt to the way it is, even if it sucks.....is that good for the tl'dr???

Absolutely yes... and to elaborate... IT WILL NEVER BE REAL LIFE. The only way to FORCE real life results would be to make player building and gameplanning essentially irrelevant.

I understand that.

But when you are trying to build a SIMULATION (as opposed to Donkey Kong) you are TRYING to make it as close as possible. Thats what makes it interesting - and marketable.

The current state of GLB isn't even vaguely close. 255-0 etc. FFs probably not the most glaring example but ST over all certainly is one of them.

Originally posted by SLZmonster
i think lurken is basically saying, it's a game not real life, instead of complaining about the way it is, you should fix some things to adapt to the way it is, even if it sucks.....is that good for the tl'dr???

Oh I have no problem trying to adapt though it would be nice if the system was less opaque to make that easier. Right now trying to figure out how two years of ST builds are the suck etc.

But the point is that the game ALSO needs to be fixed. They dont have suggestion forums and they dont call it beta because they are done designing it, after all.

Originally posted by beenlurken

What would be the point of building dots then? Please answer that...

Come on been, don't be pointlessly argumentative, you know darned well the point.

The normal range of NFL results includes winners and losers and great players and second stringers.

It just doesn't include 255-0 wipe outs and 20 forced fumbled kick returns, because the difference between the greatest and the worst NFL player is not THAT big.

The point of making your builds is to try to be great and not second string, but whether you get it right or not the end results should be close games all the same - or at least closer than they are in GLB. If you get it right, you win those close games. If not, you don't.

Because thats what happens in the subject of our simulation.

Originally posted by
Just give us all lvl 72 dots... let us go back to plugging in random %'s with little to no control of the outcomes of games. We will get close games but it will be boring. There is a reason why people want ways to distinguish their dots... a reason why people wanted things like the AI's to separate themselves via gameplanning

Do you really need 20 fumbles and a 200 point blow out to make you feel all manly about your build prowess?

You couldn't get that tingle out of a 3 point win with only one fumbled return????

Call me crazy, but I would rather lose the latter than win the former - because THAT is a better game.

Originally posted by
HELL NO... I learned by reading what Bort has said about the interactions I am most interested about... once I understood how said interactions worked I built my dots to excel in those interactions... once I had a dot capable of making plays I watched a bunch of replays to get an understanding of how the plays worked so that I may use those players to the best of their abilities within those settings. I might listen to what others opinions but I will go and look at their replays and decide for myself whether or not their opinion looks credible.

Really, at one time or another Bort has explained just about every interaction in this game.. or at least to the point where we all have a good idea of what is taking place. There is really no transparency left in this (well, maybe except for someone like you who spends his time bitching in the suggestions forum instead of the forums where Bort and Catch actually explain the game).

I've tried to find these rumored expositions. Maybe I didn't have the necessary hours in the day, but there was frakking little I could find that was informative in the least.

If they are sharing these nuggets, they should compile them and call it a manual FFS.


This is what I was told about STs recently, and it is almost exactly what I did on my own. Whats wrong with it per Bort?

Strong SE Speedy 120 or more
Weak SE Strong, pancaker
DL - O Linemen types
ERs Blocking Medium types (TE FB)
PPs Speediest and good blockers

All good blockers of course. And other than the DL all speedy (and they not too shabby).

Whats wrong with that set up? Whats missing from it?

Originally posted by

Again, here is your problem... you would rather blindly bitch about something not working then actually analyze the player and figure out what you think you might be doing wrong. You keep referring to the NFL and "real football"... well "real" teams analyze their films and make adjustments. How can you possibly expect for "competitive NFL simulation" when you refuse to watch your replays (ones that we have singled out for you as having mistakes) and make necessary adjustments? If teams were as lazy as you seem to be I am sure we would see what you deem as ridiculous stats too


And here is where you continue to ignore my point. If the player has to do something to keep the sim from going off the NFL tracks and turning into a basket ball game, then the SIMULATION IS AT FAULT.

Can you try to at least grasp what I am saying, its not that hard.

Originally posted by

Excuses.. excuses... you are really good at these. The SIM pertaining to PR's has been the same damn thing for a long time... you are making mistakes that should have been corrected 15 seasons ago.

Yeah, I never really paid attention to STs till mmm maybe this season, last or so. Its true.

But, again, not the point of the main discussion. The garbage the system generates is, and that shouldnt come out of it no matter what we put in.

Feel free to edit that non wl lost record thing Buda had going on lol.

This is an old ranking thread that took a turn for the worst and never turned back.

Originally posted by beenlurken
If you cant look at the play that I linked before...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1667086&pbp_id=7830780


One more thing on that play, and the others like it in tonights game (both ways, though we didnt generate a turn over), in an NFL game, do you really think a returner is going to fumble in that situation???? Hes going to plow head on into five tacklers????? I dont have game film in front of me but I suspect he is going to tuck the ball in real good and if not QB Slide at least create a tackle on his terms with him holding for all he is worth to the ball and avoiding a big hit.

Here its like hes unaware of the avalanche coming at him and he drops it often. Very dumb.

Originally posted by yello1


A) Okay on this, first as to our main debate - try to back up and watch this play after FIRST realizing that

1) This is an NFL game you are watching. Thats what the simulation is, Pro Football in America. BOTH teams are made up of NFL players. An NFL simulation would not have anything else on the field.

2) Have you EVER seen an NFL punt where none of the coverage team is blocked at all??????

Do you get it NOW?

If that was a movie about the NFL you would laugh your azz off at how stupid and unrealistic it looked.

Thats not the result one is trying to achieve when one makes, or plays, a simulation.

As such, the simulation is broken. Needs to be fixed. This is my point. Thank you for finding as clear an illustration of it as that.

And no - you cant blame that on the player. I didnt come here for a game of High Schoolers Versus All Pros. Thats not what the "box" advertised and its not what I would spend money to play. That the game allows it is a betrayal of the games marketing pitch. Thats the Devs fault, not the players.

1) Goal Line Blitz is not affiliated with the NFL or any other professional football league I dont why you continue to ignore the simple fact that Bort's vision/goal of this game is not a direct or close to direct simulation of NFL. Again, the MAJORITY of the people playing this game want to see their dots rack up stats even at the expense of losing "realism" within the game. This was decided on in the first few seasons of GLB's existence. To continue to spam for "realism" is going to get you nowhere.

Regardless, your "NFL" analogy is ridiculous. What I see in that play is not TWO NFL teams playing each other... I see one using NFL strategy while the other is using.. well, I dont even know what to call it because it is so gawd awful terrible... it certainly is not Pro quality. Again why would you expect to see NFL results when clearly on of the teams is not exhibiting NFL qualities/strategy/etc?

Understand this... reaching level 72 and having you team make lolNat Pro does not make it "NFL quality". The fact that you think that simply building to end-game should guarantee "NFL" quality is laughable. I will say it again... what is the point of building dots if the end-game difference between dots is negligible?

2) Have you ever seen an NFL team put a punt return team out there that is not capable of blocking the coverage team?

It is not a fail of the sim is a fail on YOU for putting slow ass players on your punt return team and allowing almost everyone of their coverage players attack your punt returner unblocked. The only reason that looks so ridiculous is because of YOU.

Originally posted by yello1
B So what exactly is the problem here? My players on that field are all speedy strong and fast to varyin degrees. HOW are they being so blown away?

This is a joke, right? You have 5 players that only hit 22-23ish on the speed script (that is SLOW) and 5 that only hit 30-32 on the speed script... while there coverage team all hits 35-36+ on the speed script (and I wouldnt call them fast). How on earth do you think that return should be fast enough to beat that coverage team down field to reengage in blocks? You have to realize how unbelievably naive you look here...

Originally posted by yello1
And HOW do they then turn around and run three TDs back in the same game against the same squad? (IIRC may have been 2 forget).

If you are going to continue to debate this then at least stay on topic... what your team did on kickoffs has nothing to do with how shitty you punt return team is.


Originally posted by yello1
Beyond the fact that the sim should not make them left in the dust by other players who by definition can not be that much differently built, what can I do to make this work better? Is 120-130 speed not fast enough? Blocking 80 to 100 not high enough? Strengths of 100-150 not good enough? Agility? Vision? Wrong Sunglasses? Whats the problem?

The bold is where you are failing in this argument. You insist that everything that you are doing is right and that simply is not true. Clearly those slow ass OL that you insist on using on punt returns (no.. im not talking about the STOPs) ARE built very differently from those they are trying to block. The little speed that you do have on the punt return team is put in the wrong places. Why do insist on using something that is not working? Why do you refuse to watch/mimic others who are not having the problems that you are having? It is a shame you have wasted almost a seasons worth of punt returns with that shitty strategy infront of your returner without trying something new... we have seen what he can do with decent blocking on KO's (well that and playing for an average at best team that gets a lot of KR opportunities against mediocre teams that they cant keep from scoring).

Again, stop wasting your time whining and start working on fixing YOUR problems. I have practically spelled it out for you now. Your welcome. Once you actually starting doing things right and you are still having problems, then you can complain. Until then its just your usual routine of whining and making excuses for your shortcomings.

edit for quote fail

Originally posted by yello1
The current state of GLB isn't even vaguely close. 255-0 etc.

How can you expect anyone take anything you say serious when you make comments like this? That has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

I dont know why I have to explain this to you... but those games are the result of shitty league structure and GLB's inability to remove CPU's from the higher levels.

Originally posted by yello1
The normal range of NFL results includes winners and losers and great players and second stringers.

I agree this is demonstrated in the WL where almost all the teams have comparable players, game planning, strategy, etc...

AGAIN, Nat Pro sucks because the league structure is atrocious. Just look at OPL... half the teams have no business being here. Unfortunately the game cannot support the inflated Nat Pro structure to produce competitive leagues.

Originally posted by yello1
It just doesn't include 255-0 wipe outs and 20 forced fumbled kick returns, because the difference between the greatest and the worst NFL player is not THAT big.

Again, please stay on topic... just because GLB allows gut job cpu teams to remain in Nat/Reg Pro leagues does not mean they are "NFL" quality. Are you even listening to what you are typing? I suggest you read it out loud before you hit post... maybe then you will realize how ridiculous most of your points are...

Originally posted by yello1
The point of making your builds is to try to be great and not second string, but whether you get it right or not the end results should be close games all the same - or at least closer than they are in GLB. If you get it right, you win those close games. If not, you don't.

There you go again, "lets handicap good dot builders and make dot building irrelevant".


Originally posted by yello1
Do you really need 20 fumbles and a 200 point blow out to make you feel all manly about your build prowess?

Again.. apples and oranges... those cpu teams (or grossly underleveled/declined) that have 0 cares have no business being in the same league as teams that can do that to them. AGAIN, it is not a problem with the sim... it is a problem with league structure.

Originally posted by yello1
You couldn't get that tingle out of a 3 point win with only one fumbled return????

Call me crazy, but I would rather lose the latter than win the former - because THAT is a better game.

No one enjoys those game (would rather not being on the winning or losing side of those games)... but AGAIN league structure issue... NOT simulation issue.


Originally posted by yello1
If they are sharing these nuggets, they should compile them and call it a manual FFS.

Well, at least we can agree on something... unfortunately, if you want to be competitive at the highest levels of this game then you need to do just what everyone else does and scour the forums for every little bit of information.


Originally posted by yello1
And here is where you continue to ignore my point. If the player has to do something to keep the sim from going off the NFL tracks and turning into a basket ball game, then the SIMULATION IS AT FAULT.

How do you fail to understand how ridiculous that sounds?

Do you really want GLB to install bumper lanes in the game to prevent people that suck at this game from throwing gutter balls all day?


Originally posted by yello1
Yeah, I never really paid attention to STs till mmm maybe this season, last or so. Its true.

But, again, not the point of the main discussion. The garbage the system generates is, and that shouldnt come out of it no matter what we put in.

It is a huge point to the discussion because you are speaking (well, whining) about things of which you admittedly do not understand.

Originally posted by yello1
Originally posted by beenlurken

If you cant look at the play that I linked before...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1667086&pbp_id=7830780


One more thing on that play, and the others like it in tonights game (both ways, though we didnt generate a turn over), in an NFL game, do you really think a returner is going to fumble in that situation???? Hes going to plow head on into five tacklers????? I dont have game film in front of me but I suspect he is going to tuck the ball in real good and if not QB Slide at least create a tackle on his terms with him holding for all he is worth to the ball and avoiding a big hit.

Here its like hes unaware of the avalanche coming at him and he drops it often. Very dumb.

Again, do you ever see NFL teams dumb enough to put their returner in that situation (that situation was completely avoidable on your part... why do you continue to do things that even the worst NFL teams dont do)?

I would love to hear your rational of how Bort should code it any different than it already is such that the returner would have made a decision different than what is seen...

OPL forums probably aren't the best place to suggest fixes? just seems more like bitching when it's in here.

Originally posted by SLZmonster
OPL forums probably aren't the best place to suggest fixes? just seems more like bitching when it's in here.

the one post was a mispost. Should be deleted but apparently we dont have mods.

The discussion in the other thread spilled over from a suggestion forum thread. I made a suggestion and a couple of fine outstanding men of science and scholars one and all decided to turn it into a flame fest one me for reasons that defy rational explanation.