I had a really awesome reply here, but really, who has the time?
Ruger7mmmag
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I've changed my opinion after the last few games and here's why.
Take our team Oberon for instance. independent team, usually has to recruit 40+ players every season and always recruit to stay at the highest level, never "gutting" and then riding our way back up through the ranks.
Right out of the gate, we get HAMMERED by a huge chemistry hit for IMPROVING our team. Rather than stick with a bunch of declining players, we let them go and replaced them all with active, dots in their prime or plateau. That's no easy task and yet we're penalized for working our ass off to field 53 players? That right away furthers the gap between us and a top "network team" which is riding out their plan that started back 20 seasons ago or whenever. Nevermind the fact that we went 6-10 last season with a team that averaged an EL of 1020 and i like to think my coordinators are pretty good as we've had many successful seasons together including a few years where we went 22-1.
So, now we're fielding a team with an increased EL (1066 and the starting 2 deep is actually much better when you factor in the 10 ST's players and Punter which are pulling down our EL ALOT) with better dots than last season and here we are getting not only beat in the preseason, but WAXED. Doesn't bode well for the regular season. Especially with one game where our RBs fumble EIGHT TIMES! This coming from two RBs that have a history of doing really well holding on to the ball.
So if I was a new owner and just started out with this experience, would you stay "all in"? Let alone beat your head against the wall season after season to have results like this?
In the seasons where we went 22-1, it was the exact opposite. We won almost every game 255-0 and that's only bc the scoreboard didn't let it go to the 500+ points we put up in most of those games.
So here we are, the first game hasn't even been played and already we can tell we have no shot at a title and probably not the playoffs. We'll try our best to win every game bc we're a high character club, but most will just throw up their hands and be done with it.
Whether it's winning 66-14 or losing 66-14, it's not fun or realistic in any way.
There's not enough "GLB geniuses" running teams and building dots to CONSISTENTLY fill out any sort of structure they come up with to try and "catch" a "moving target" which this whole game is where turnover in dots is constant in 70% of teams.
To make this game interesting, they really have to do what Nascar does and put in something into the sim where it narrows the gap to compensate for whatever is in place that is leading to these massive lop sided scores.
Look at our preseason games so far and how far apart we've been in these scores and I know we aren't that much "worse" than these scores indicate.
Game 1-Lost to the Grupies 73-3. Yeah they have an EL of 1136 and ours is 1066, but our two deep like mentioned above of the offense and defense is pretty darn close to them. Yet we're 70 points worse than them? SEVENTY?
Game 2-lost to OT Miracle 42-14. Our teams in EL are pretty much identical, if anything, our team as Yello will tell you, before the game predicted we'd win by 2-3 TDs. He's got dots on our squad so he's got a pretty good idea of what we have assembled. Instead, we have 9 turnovers and get blown out. Are you kidding? We've got well built RBs who have no history of fumbling, yet they fumble 7 times losing 6? Not to mention the 2 INTs in that one making it even worse.
Game 3-Voo Doo. Lost 66-7 and in this one our EL is slightly BETTER than theirs. Their QBs couldn't miss on anything, yet ours couldn't hit the broad side of a barn? Hell, their QB2 was 100% passing and he's not even close to the polished product our QB1 who went for 40%!
That's what has people pissed off and quitting this game. We're all sitting here with no idea what the hell is going on and no way to figure out WHY these games are blowouts when by all measurables we should've had some pretty competitive games.
If teams with very similar ELs are having this drastic of outcomes, that speaks to a BIG PROBLEM at the heart of how these games play out more than which teams are in which conferences especially if you have teams that will gut at first sign of not being able to "win it all" like we saw above.
Take our team Oberon for instance. independent team, usually has to recruit 40+ players every season and always recruit to stay at the highest level, never "gutting" and then riding our way back up through the ranks.
Right out of the gate, we get HAMMERED by a huge chemistry hit for IMPROVING our team. Rather than stick with a bunch of declining players, we let them go and replaced them all with active, dots in their prime or plateau. That's no easy task and yet we're penalized for working our ass off to field 53 players? That right away furthers the gap between us and a top "network team" which is riding out their plan that started back 20 seasons ago or whenever. Nevermind the fact that we went 6-10 last season with a team that averaged an EL of 1020 and i like to think my coordinators are pretty good as we've had many successful seasons together including a few years where we went 22-1.
So, now we're fielding a team with an increased EL (1066 and the starting 2 deep is actually much better when you factor in the 10 ST's players and Punter which are pulling down our EL ALOT) with better dots than last season and here we are getting not only beat in the preseason, but WAXED. Doesn't bode well for the regular season. Especially with one game where our RBs fumble EIGHT TIMES! This coming from two RBs that have a history of doing really well holding on to the ball.
So if I was a new owner and just started out with this experience, would you stay "all in"? Let alone beat your head against the wall season after season to have results like this?
In the seasons where we went 22-1, it was the exact opposite. We won almost every game 255-0 and that's only bc the scoreboard didn't let it go to the 500+ points we put up in most of those games.
So here we are, the first game hasn't even been played and already we can tell we have no shot at a title and probably not the playoffs. We'll try our best to win every game bc we're a high character club, but most will just throw up their hands and be done with it.
Whether it's winning 66-14 or losing 66-14, it's not fun or realistic in any way.
There's not enough "GLB geniuses" running teams and building dots to CONSISTENTLY fill out any sort of structure they come up with to try and "catch" a "moving target" which this whole game is where turnover in dots is constant in 70% of teams.
To make this game interesting, they really have to do what Nascar does and put in something into the sim where it narrows the gap to compensate for whatever is in place that is leading to these massive lop sided scores.
Look at our preseason games so far and how far apart we've been in these scores and I know we aren't that much "worse" than these scores indicate.
Game 1-Lost to the Grupies 73-3. Yeah they have an EL of 1136 and ours is 1066, but our two deep like mentioned above of the offense and defense is pretty darn close to them. Yet we're 70 points worse than them? SEVENTY?
Game 2-lost to OT Miracle 42-14. Our teams in EL are pretty much identical, if anything, our team as Yello will tell you, before the game predicted we'd win by 2-3 TDs. He's got dots on our squad so he's got a pretty good idea of what we have assembled. Instead, we have 9 turnovers and get blown out. Are you kidding? We've got well built RBs who have no history of fumbling, yet they fumble 7 times losing 6? Not to mention the 2 INTs in that one making it even worse.
Game 3-Voo Doo. Lost 66-7 and in this one our EL is slightly BETTER than theirs. Their QBs couldn't miss on anything, yet ours couldn't hit the broad side of a barn? Hell, their QB2 was 100% passing and he's not even close to the polished product our QB1 who went for 40%!
That's what has people pissed off and quitting this game. We're all sitting here with no idea what the hell is going on and no way to figure out WHY these games are blowouts when by all measurables we should've had some pretty competitive games.
If teams with very similar ELs are having this drastic of outcomes, that speaks to a BIG PROBLEM at the heart of how these games play out more than which teams are in which conferences especially if you have teams that will gut at first sign of not being able to "win it all" like we saw above.
steelerblitz
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Originally posted by Plankton
I agree with 90% of what WJ says. I think the user community, as a whole, has changed, and that is a major reason that GLB is not as much fun for me as it once was. I also really hate the "we lost b.c we couldn't be bothered to gameplan" response. Have I lost b/c I ran out of time or were too busy to gameplan? Of course. But I would never post it as an excuse. Yet that mentality has become so prevalent now that gameplanning (i.e. actually playing the game you pay for) is actually frowned upon and winning after gameplanning somehow cheapens the win. How ludicrous is that?
The 10% that I do not agree is that Pro should stay the same. Devonport's farm team just got promoted to WEPL after going 11-5 and losing in the first round in Elite Reg. Pro. When we started that farm team, I had a goal of getting them to Pro before moving them to Devonport. I thought that was the epitome of success (having a Pro farm team and a WL main team). The reality is that having a Pro farm team now just proves that you can field a remotely well built team that is 320+ days old. We did not truly earn our pro spot, and thus it is not an accomplishment to be proud of.
I would love to see a contraction to 4 Pro leagues. That would make getting into Pro actually mean something. I realize that some teams would not make it to Pro, but I guess I don't buy the idea that Pro is a right that every team should have. I think it should be earned, and thus something to be proud of once you do earn it.
I know this may offend those that just promoted. If so, I am not trying to insult your efforts. But if you are honest with yourself (and have been around long enough), you have to admit that you had a harder time going from AA to AAA in Season 5 than you did going from Regional Pro to Pro in Season 21.
On a related note, I think alot of the fun that has been removed is the idea of promotions having meaning. Getting into an Elite minors league is not much harder than getting into Pro. Winning an Elite minors league is an accomplishment to be proud of, but the "promotions" throughout the minors are not meaningful. In the old pyramid, every team tried every season because winning was important. The top 2 or 3 had a shot to promote, and the champs auto-promoted. Thus, the prize was not a .gif so much as moving up in the GLB world.
That idea is completely gone now. I'm not sure we can get it back, but it is a big part of the decline of GLB, IMO.
I agree with 90% of what WJ says. I think the user community, as a whole, has changed, and that is a major reason that GLB is not as much fun for me as it once was. I also really hate the "we lost b.c we couldn't be bothered to gameplan" response. Have I lost b/c I ran out of time or were too busy to gameplan? Of course. But I would never post it as an excuse. Yet that mentality has become so prevalent now that gameplanning (i.e. actually playing the game you pay for) is actually frowned upon and winning after gameplanning somehow cheapens the win. How ludicrous is that?
The 10% that I do not agree is that Pro should stay the same. Devonport's farm team just got promoted to WEPL after going 11-5 and losing in the first round in Elite Reg. Pro. When we started that farm team, I had a goal of getting them to Pro before moving them to Devonport. I thought that was the epitome of success (having a Pro farm team and a WL main team). The reality is that having a Pro farm team now just proves that you can field a remotely well built team that is 320+ days old. We did not truly earn our pro spot, and thus it is not an accomplishment to be proud of.
I would love to see a contraction to 4 Pro leagues. That would make getting into Pro actually mean something. I realize that some teams would not make it to Pro, but I guess I don't buy the idea that Pro is a right that every team should have. I think it should be earned, and thus something to be proud of once you do earn it.
I know this may offend those that just promoted. If so, I am not trying to insult your efforts. But if you are honest with yourself (and have been around long enough), you have to admit that you had a harder time going from AA to AAA in Season 5 than you did going from Regional Pro to Pro in Season 21.
On a related note, I think alot of the fun that has been removed is the idea of promotions having meaning. Getting into an Elite minors league is not much harder than getting into Pro. Winning an Elite minors league is an accomplishment to be proud of, but the "promotions" throughout the minors are not meaningful. In the old pyramid, every team tried every season because winning was important. The top 2 or 3 had a shot to promote, and the champs auto-promoted. Thus, the prize was not a .gif so much as moving up in the GLB world.
That idea is completely gone now. I'm not sure we can get it back, but it is a big part of the decline of GLB, IMO.
Frozen Heat
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What if we paired each League with a sister League, cut the teams in half and make each one a conference. So instead of Oceania and USA you would have 1 league with the USA Conference and the Oceania Conference? You would then do the same for the rest.
Edit***
You could even rotate the Conferences so that the pairings are different each season. That way the Oceania teams always play each other and you get to face off against another region each season. It's like a built-in region tournament all around every season.
GO GCMM!!!
-WJ
Edit***
You could even rotate the Conferences so that the pairings are different each season. That way the Oceania teams always play each other and you get to face off against another region each season. It's like a built-in region tournament all around every season.
GO GCMM!!!
-WJ
Edited by Wolfpack Justice on Mar 15, 2011 16:53:54
bug03
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Originally posted by Wolfpack Justice
I don't think you or anyone at EEA wants to cheapen others experience but IF starting a bunch of snarky threads and trolling newbs in the OPL forum is more interesting or a better use of ones time than game planning through the regular season and thus making the regular season more fun for all and improving the individual/team's chances of winning a title and living up to the hype then we can't get anywhere.
Like I said, I know how it is. I help a lot of teams and with my job I can spend a lot of time logged in but not enough sitting down doing the hard work it takes to be the best team all of the time. Heck, even if I did I probably couldn't do that anyway and I have no illusions of grandeur that make me think I could. I tell you all this so you know that I am not trying to boast in any way. I am simply saying that I can't take an argument that says the Pro leagues are too weak from anyone who doesn't exhibit an ability to dominate most leagues they participate in.
In the NFL there are a lot teams that seem to be in the mix year in and year out but rarely if ever win the big game. It usually comes down to one of 3 things in my estimation. Either the team is too young, not quite talented enough or not prepared. It is never anyone's "turn". Every team that wins the Superbowl earns it imo and there are not 32 teams that can expect to do that not only year in and year out but in some cases ever.
I think GLB would be doing the game a disservice by doing too much in the way of dismantling the way the National Pro leagues work. If there aren't enough good teams to fill the slots I don't put that on the game but rather the petulant attitude that is prevalent throughout not only the community within GLB but in my experience has permeated modern society as a whole in the developed world and that is a sense of entitlement and an overall lack of concern for anyone other than ones self.
I think iot is this attitude that has taken over the general discussion areas of this game and has thus become the face of GLB to some extent. I know a lot more people that have quit GLB because of the overall climate/environment within the game than quit because they thought the sim was hopeless or that the developers didn't want to deliver a quality product.
I don't get paid to give my 2 cents on these matters and I only pay money to play, not post in general forums where I will in the end be shouted down by the bunch of internet tough/smart guys who imo are the biggest problem with this game to begin with.
I have witnessed too many users join GLB, start off as great agents, find their way into a group that promotes poor sportsmanship and before you know it I can't read their posts without making sure my 1st grader isn't standing behind me. This game is probably doomed but it's not the fault of GLB except in that they have allowed the aforementioned element to rule the roost. Doing things that aren't really good ideas because they stave off a collapse of a system is not really a good thing for a system unless the culture is willing to then do the things that it takes to reinstate what is considered the paradigm asap.
I actually think they are going to be able to come up with a bandaid fix that will make most happy for a while but I'm not sure the things that are driving a lot of folks away are really being addressed in said fix.
Go Oceania!!!
-WJ
If I can address the bolded part - I'm a mortgage banker, I spend a lot of my time on hold or at least on the phone having menial conversations that don't take a lot of thought. I have a LOT of 5 min intervals to get on and make a forum post or talk some shit or something and with my level of ADD, it helps make the day much better. If I had all those 5 mins together at one time every day to sit down and gameplan, I would. And while you're not entirely right about the not gameplanning during the regular season hurting us in the playoffs (because I actually used to gameplan for WL scrims quite often - which might have hurt because WL and PRO offenses are way different) I will tell you that I should have spent more time gameplanning in the playoffs than I have previously and a LOT of that is due to time constraints. I am not ever home on the weekends (otega can attest to this) and I have to make a point to lose out on my social life or work life to get GLB done and that's not always something I want to do. So in a way, you're right and I am an asshole
I don't think you or anyone at EEA wants to cheapen others experience but IF starting a bunch of snarky threads and trolling newbs in the OPL forum is more interesting or a better use of ones time than game planning through the regular season and thus making the regular season more fun for all and improving the individual/team's chances of winning a title and living up to the hype then we can't get anywhere.
Like I said, I know how it is. I help a lot of teams and with my job I can spend a lot of time logged in but not enough sitting down doing the hard work it takes to be the best team all of the time. Heck, even if I did I probably couldn't do that anyway and I have no illusions of grandeur that make me think I could. I tell you all this so you know that I am not trying to boast in any way. I am simply saying that I can't take an argument that says the Pro leagues are too weak from anyone who doesn't exhibit an ability to dominate most leagues they participate in.
In the NFL there are a lot teams that seem to be in the mix year in and year out but rarely if ever win the big game. It usually comes down to one of 3 things in my estimation. Either the team is too young, not quite talented enough or not prepared. It is never anyone's "turn". Every team that wins the Superbowl earns it imo and there are not 32 teams that can expect to do that not only year in and year out but in some cases ever.
I think GLB would be doing the game a disservice by doing too much in the way of dismantling the way the National Pro leagues work. If there aren't enough good teams to fill the slots I don't put that on the game but rather the petulant attitude that is prevalent throughout not only the community within GLB but in my experience has permeated modern society as a whole in the developed world and that is a sense of entitlement and an overall lack of concern for anyone other than ones self.
I think iot is this attitude that has taken over the general discussion areas of this game and has thus become the face of GLB to some extent. I know a lot more people that have quit GLB because of the overall climate/environment within the game than quit because they thought the sim was hopeless or that the developers didn't want to deliver a quality product.
I don't get paid to give my 2 cents on these matters and I only pay money to play, not post in general forums where I will in the end be shouted down by the bunch of internet tough/smart guys who imo are the biggest problem with this game to begin with.
I have witnessed too many users join GLB, start off as great agents, find their way into a group that promotes poor sportsmanship and before you know it I can't read their posts without making sure my 1st grader isn't standing behind me. This game is probably doomed but it's not the fault of GLB except in that they have allowed the aforementioned element to rule the roost. Doing things that aren't really good ideas because they stave off a collapse of a system is not really a good thing for a system unless the culture is willing to then do the things that it takes to reinstate what is considered the paradigm asap.
I actually think they are going to be able to come up with a bandaid fix that will make most happy for a while but I'm not sure the things that are driving a lot of folks away are really being addressed in said fix.
Go Oceania!!!
-WJ
If I can address the bolded part - I'm a mortgage banker, I spend a lot of my time on hold or at least on the phone having menial conversations that don't take a lot of thought. I have a LOT of 5 min intervals to get on and make a forum post or talk some shit or something and with my level of ADD, it helps make the day much better. If I had all those 5 mins together at one time every day to sit down and gameplan, I would. And while you're not entirely right about the not gameplanning during the regular season hurting us in the playoffs (because I actually used to gameplan for WL scrims quite often - which might have hurt because WL and PRO offenses are way different) I will tell you that I should have spent more time gameplanning in the playoffs than I have previously and a LOT of that is due to time constraints. I am not ever home on the weekends (otega can attest to this) and I have to make a point to lose out on my social life or work life to get GLB done and that's not always something I want to do. So in a way, you're right and I am an asshole
viking maniac 1
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Originally posted by Plankton
I agree with 90% of what WJ says. I think the user community, as a whole, has changed, and that is a major reason that GLB is not as much fun for me as it once was. I also really hate the "we lost b.c we couldn't be bothered to gameplan" response. Have I lost b/c I ran out of time or were too busy to gameplan? Of course. But I would never post it as an excuse. Yet that mentality has become so prevalent now that gameplanning (i.e. actually playing the game you pay for) is actually frowned upon and winning after gameplanning somehow cheapens the win. How ludicrous is that?
The 10% that I do not agree is that Pro should stay the same. Devonport's farm team just got promoted to WEPL after going 11-5 and losing in the first round in Elite Reg. Pro. When we started that farm team, I had a goal of getting them to Pro before moving them to Devonport. I thought that was the epitome of success (having a Pro farm team and a WL main team). The reality is that having a Pro farm team now just proves that you can field a remotely well built team that is 320+ days old. We did not truly earn our pro spot, and thus it is not an accomplishment to be proud of.
I would love to see a contraction to 4 Pro leagues. That would make getting into Pro actually mean something. I realize that some teams would not make it to Pro, but I guess I don't buy the idea that Pro is a right that every team should have. I think it should be earned, and thus something to be proud of once you do earn it.
I know this may offend those that just promoted. If so, I am not trying to insult your efforts. But if you are honest with yourself (and have been around long enough), you have to admit that you had a harder time going from AA to AAA in Season 5 than you did going from Regional Pro to Pro in Season 21.
On a related note, I think alot of the fun that has been removed is the idea of promotions having meaning. Getting into an Elite minors league is not much harder than getting into Pro. Winning an Elite minors league is an accomplishment to be proud of, but the "promotions" throughout the minors are not meaningful. In the old pyramid, every team tried every season because winning was important. The top 2 or 3 had a shot to promote, and the champs auto-promoted. Thus, the prize was not a .gif so much as moving up in the GLB world.
That idea is completely gone now. I'm not sure we can get it back, but it is a big part of the decline of GLB, IMO.
Excellent point every team does not deserve to make it to Pro it was more fun when you had to fight to get there. This is not tee ball where you don't keep score and everyone gets a trophy for participating
I agree with 90% of what WJ says. I think the user community, as a whole, has changed, and that is a major reason that GLB is not as much fun for me as it once was. I also really hate the "we lost b.c we couldn't be bothered to gameplan" response. Have I lost b/c I ran out of time or were too busy to gameplan? Of course. But I would never post it as an excuse. Yet that mentality has become so prevalent now that gameplanning (i.e. actually playing the game you pay for) is actually frowned upon and winning after gameplanning somehow cheapens the win. How ludicrous is that?
The 10% that I do not agree is that Pro should stay the same. Devonport's farm team just got promoted to WEPL after going 11-5 and losing in the first round in Elite Reg. Pro. When we started that farm team, I had a goal of getting them to Pro before moving them to Devonport. I thought that was the epitome of success (having a Pro farm team and a WL main team). The reality is that having a Pro farm team now just proves that you can field a remotely well built team that is 320+ days old. We did not truly earn our pro spot, and thus it is not an accomplishment to be proud of.
I would love to see a contraction to 4 Pro leagues. That would make getting into Pro actually mean something. I realize that some teams would not make it to Pro, but I guess I don't buy the idea that Pro is a right that every team should have. I think it should be earned, and thus something to be proud of once you do earn it.
I know this may offend those that just promoted. If so, I am not trying to insult your efforts. But if you are honest with yourself (and have been around long enough), you have to admit that you had a harder time going from AA to AAA in Season 5 than you did going from Regional Pro to Pro in Season 21.
On a related note, I think alot of the fun that has been removed is the idea of promotions having meaning. Getting into an Elite minors league is not much harder than getting into Pro. Winning an Elite minors league is an accomplishment to be proud of, but the "promotions" throughout the minors are not meaningful. In the old pyramid, every team tried every season because winning was important. The top 2 or 3 had a shot to promote, and the champs auto-promoted. Thus, the prize was not a .gif so much as moving up in the GLB world.
That idea is completely gone now. I'm not sure we can get it back, but it is a big part of the decline of GLB, IMO.
Excellent point every team does not deserve to make it to Pro it was more fun when you had to fight to get there. This is not tee ball where you don't keep score and everyone gets a trophy for participating
SLZmonster
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Originally posted by bug03
Originally posted by Wolfpack Justice
I don't think you or anyone at EEA wants to cheapen others experience but IF starting a bunch of snarky threads and trolling newbs in the OPL forum is more interesting or a better use of ones time than game planning through the regular season and thus making the regular season more fun for all and improving the individual/team's chances of winning a title and living up to the hype then we can't get anywhere.
Like I said, I know how it is. I help a lot of teams and with my job I can spend a lot of time logged in but not enough sitting down doing the hard work it takes to be the best team all of the time. Heck, even if I did I probably couldn't do that anyway and I have no illusions of grandeur that make me think I could. I tell you all this so you know that I am not trying to boast in any way. I am simply saying that I can't take an argument that says the Pro leagues are too weak from anyone who doesn't exhibit an ability to dominate most leagues they participate in.
In the NFL there are a lot teams that seem to be in the mix year in and year out but rarely if ever win the big game. It usually comes down to one of 3 things in my estimation. Either the team is too young, not quite talented enough or not prepared. It is never anyone's "turn". Every team that wins the Superbowl earns it imo and there are not 32 teams that can expect to do that not only year in and year out but in some cases ever.
I think GLB would be doing the game a disservice by doing too much in the way of dismantling the way the National Pro leagues work. If there aren't enough good teams to fill the slots I don't put that on the game but rather the petulant attitude that is prevalent throughout not only the community within GLB but in my experience has permeated modern society as a whole in the developed world and that is a sense of entitlement and an overall lack of concern for anyone other than ones self.
I think iot is this attitude that has taken over the general discussion areas of this game and has thus become the face of GLB to some extent. I know a lot more people that have quit GLB because of the overall climate/environment within the game than quit because they thought the sim was hopeless or that the developers didn't want to deliver a quality product.
I don't get paid to give my 2 cents on these matters and I only pay money to play, not post in general forums where I will in the end be shouted down by the bunch of internet tough/smart guys who imo are the biggest problem with this game to begin with.
I have witnessed too many users join GLB, start off as great agents, find their way into a group that promotes poor sportsmanship and before you know it I can't read their posts without making sure my 1st grader isn't standing behind me. This game is probably doomed but it's not the fault of GLB except in that they have allowed the aforementioned element to rule the roost. Doing things that aren't really good ideas because they stave off a collapse of a system is not really a good thing for a system unless the culture is willing to then do the things that it takes to reinstate what is considered the paradigm asap.
I actually think they are going to be able to come up with a bandaid fix that will make most happy for a while but I'm not sure the things that are driving a lot of folks away are really being addressed in said fix.
Go Oceania!!!
-WJ
If I can address the bolded part - I'm a mortgage banker, I spend a lot of my time on hold or at least on the phone having menial conversations that don't take a lot of thought. I have a LOT of 5 min intervals to get on and make a forum post or talk some shit or something and with my level of ADD, it helps make the day much better. If I had all those 5 mins together at one time every day to sit down and gameplan, I would. And while you're not entirely right about the not gameplanning during the regular season hurting us in the playoffs (because I actually used to gameplan for WL scrims quite often - which might have hurt because WL and PRO offenses are way different) I will tell you that I should have spent more time gameplanning in the playoffs than I have previously and a LOT of that is due to time constraints. I am not ever home on the weekends (otega can attest to this) and I have to make a point to lose out on my social life or work life to get GLB done and that's not always something I want to do. So in a way, you're right and I am an asshole
but your my asshole bug....
Originally posted by Wolfpack Justice
I don't think you or anyone at EEA wants to cheapen others experience but IF starting a bunch of snarky threads and trolling newbs in the OPL forum is more interesting or a better use of ones time than game planning through the regular season and thus making the regular season more fun for all and improving the individual/team's chances of winning a title and living up to the hype then we can't get anywhere.
Like I said, I know how it is. I help a lot of teams and with my job I can spend a lot of time logged in but not enough sitting down doing the hard work it takes to be the best team all of the time. Heck, even if I did I probably couldn't do that anyway and I have no illusions of grandeur that make me think I could. I tell you all this so you know that I am not trying to boast in any way. I am simply saying that I can't take an argument that says the Pro leagues are too weak from anyone who doesn't exhibit an ability to dominate most leagues they participate in.
In the NFL there are a lot teams that seem to be in the mix year in and year out but rarely if ever win the big game. It usually comes down to one of 3 things in my estimation. Either the team is too young, not quite talented enough or not prepared. It is never anyone's "turn". Every team that wins the Superbowl earns it imo and there are not 32 teams that can expect to do that not only year in and year out but in some cases ever.
I think GLB would be doing the game a disservice by doing too much in the way of dismantling the way the National Pro leagues work. If there aren't enough good teams to fill the slots I don't put that on the game but rather the petulant attitude that is prevalent throughout not only the community within GLB but in my experience has permeated modern society as a whole in the developed world and that is a sense of entitlement and an overall lack of concern for anyone other than ones self.
I think iot is this attitude that has taken over the general discussion areas of this game and has thus become the face of GLB to some extent. I know a lot more people that have quit GLB because of the overall climate/environment within the game than quit because they thought the sim was hopeless or that the developers didn't want to deliver a quality product.
I don't get paid to give my 2 cents on these matters and I only pay money to play, not post in general forums where I will in the end be shouted down by the bunch of internet tough/smart guys who imo are the biggest problem with this game to begin with.
I have witnessed too many users join GLB, start off as great agents, find their way into a group that promotes poor sportsmanship and before you know it I can't read their posts without making sure my 1st grader isn't standing behind me. This game is probably doomed but it's not the fault of GLB except in that they have allowed the aforementioned element to rule the roost. Doing things that aren't really good ideas because they stave off a collapse of a system is not really a good thing for a system unless the culture is willing to then do the things that it takes to reinstate what is considered the paradigm asap.
I actually think they are going to be able to come up with a bandaid fix that will make most happy for a while but I'm not sure the things that are driving a lot of folks away are really being addressed in said fix.
Go Oceania!!!
-WJ
If I can address the bolded part - I'm a mortgage banker, I spend a lot of my time on hold or at least on the phone having menial conversations that don't take a lot of thought. I have a LOT of 5 min intervals to get on and make a forum post or talk some shit or something and with my level of ADD, it helps make the day much better. If I had all those 5 mins together at one time every day to sit down and gameplan, I would. And while you're not entirely right about the not gameplanning during the regular season hurting us in the playoffs (because I actually used to gameplan for WL scrims quite often - which might have hurt because WL and PRO offenses are way different) I will tell you that I should have spent more time gameplanning in the playoffs than I have previously and a LOT of that is due to time constraints. I am not ever home on the weekends (otega can attest to this) and I have to make a point to lose out on my social life or work life to get GLB done and that's not always something I want to do. So in a way, you're right and I am an asshole
but your my asshole bug....
Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
I've changed my opinion after the last few games and here's why.
Take our team Oberon for instance. independent team, usually has to recruit 40+ players every season and always recruit to stay at the highest level, never "gutting" and then riding our way back up through the ranks.
Right out of the gate, we get HAMMERED by a huge chemistry hit for IMPROVING our team. Rather than stick with a bunch of declining players, we let them go and replaced them all with active, dots in their prime or plateau. That's no easy task and yet we're penalized for working our ass off to field 53 players? That right away furthers the gap between us and a top "network team" which is riding out their plan that started back 20 seasons ago or whenever. Nevermind the fact that we went 6-10 last season with a team that averaged an EL of 1020 and i like to think my coordinators are pretty good as we've had many successful seasons together including a few years where we went 22-1.
So, now we're fielding a team with an increased EL (1066 and the starting 2 deep is actually much better when you factor in the 10 ST's players and Punter which are pulling down our EL ALOT) with better dots than last season and here we are getting not only beat in the preseason, but WAXED. Doesn't bode well for the regular season. Especially with one game where our RBs fumble EIGHT TIMES! This coming from two RBs that have a history of doing really well holding on to the ball.
So if I was a new owner and just started out with this experience, would you stay "all in"? Let alone beat your head against the wall season after season to have results like this?
In the seasons where we went 22-1, it was the exact opposite. We won almost every game 255-0 and that's only bc the scoreboard didn't let it go to the 500+ points we put up in most of those games.
So here we are, the first game hasn't even been played and already we can tell we have no shot at a title and probably not the playoffs. We'll try our best to win every game bc we're a high character club, but most will just throw up their hands and be done with it.
Whether it's winning 66-14 or losing 66-14, it's not fun or realistic in any way.
There's not enough "GLB geniuses" running teams and building dots to CONSISTENTLY fill out any sort of structure they come up with to try and "catch" a "moving target" which this whole game is where turnover in dots is constant in 70% of teams.
To make this game interesting, they really have to do what Nascar does and put in something into the sim where it narrows the gap to compensate for whatever is in place that is leading to these massive lop sided scores.
Look at our preseason games so far and how far apart we've been in these scores and I know we aren't that much "worse" than these scores indicate.
Game 1-Lost to the Grupies 73-3. Yeah they have an EL of 1136 and ours is 1066, but our two deep like mentioned above of the offense and defense is pretty darn close to them. Yet we're 70 points worse than them? SEVENTY?
Game 2-lost to OT Miracle 42-14. Our teams in EL are pretty much identical, if anything, our team as Yello will tell you, before the game predicted we'd win by 2-3 TDs. He's got dots on our squad so he's got a pretty good idea of what we have assembled. Instead, we have 9 turnovers and get blown out. Are you kidding? We've got well built RBs who have no history of fumbling, yet they fumble 7 times losing 6? Not to mention the 2 INTs in that one making it even worse.
Game 3-Voo Doo. Lost 66-7 and in this one our EL is slightly BETTER than theirs. Their QBs couldn't miss on anything, yet ours couldn't hit the broad side of a barn? Hell, their QB2 was 100% passing and he's not even close to the polished product our QB1 who went for 40%!
That's what has people pissed off and quitting this game. We're all sitting here with no idea what the hell is going on and no way to figure out WHY these games are blowouts when by all measurables we should've had some pretty competitive games.
If teams with very similar ELs are having this drastic of outcomes, that speaks to a BIG PROBLEM at the heart of how these games play out more than which teams are in which conferences especially if you have teams that will gut at first sign of not being able to "win it all" like we saw above.
The real problem your post speaks to is the rather ludicrous fact that this game is all about investing in numbers, when not one of us actually knows what those numbers really do in the game.
If there was more education, more transparency, that alone would go a long way to making the game more balanced and competitive.
I've changed my opinion after the last few games and here's why.
Take our team Oberon for instance. independent team, usually has to recruit 40+ players every season and always recruit to stay at the highest level, never "gutting" and then riding our way back up through the ranks.
Right out of the gate, we get HAMMERED by a huge chemistry hit for IMPROVING our team. Rather than stick with a bunch of declining players, we let them go and replaced them all with active, dots in their prime or plateau. That's no easy task and yet we're penalized for working our ass off to field 53 players? That right away furthers the gap between us and a top "network team" which is riding out their plan that started back 20 seasons ago or whenever. Nevermind the fact that we went 6-10 last season with a team that averaged an EL of 1020 and i like to think my coordinators are pretty good as we've had many successful seasons together including a few years where we went 22-1.
So, now we're fielding a team with an increased EL (1066 and the starting 2 deep is actually much better when you factor in the 10 ST's players and Punter which are pulling down our EL ALOT) with better dots than last season and here we are getting not only beat in the preseason, but WAXED. Doesn't bode well for the regular season. Especially with one game where our RBs fumble EIGHT TIMES! This coming from two RBs that have a history of doing really well holding on to the ball.
So if I was a new owner and just started out with this experience, would you stay "all in"? Let alone beat your head against the wall season after season to have results like this?
In the seasons where we went 22-1, it was the exact opposite. We won almost every game 255-0 and that's only bc the scoreboard didn't let it go to the 500+ points we put up in most of those games.
So here we are, the first game hasn't even been played and already we can tell we have no shot at a title and probably not the playoffs. We'll try our best to win every game bc we're a high character club, but most will just throw up their hands and be done with it.
Whether it's winning 66-14 or losing 66-14, it's not fun or realistic in any way.
There's not enough "GLB geniuses" running teams and building dots to CONSISTENTLY fill out any sort of structure they come up with to try and "catch" a "moving target" which this whole game is where turnover in dots is constant in 70% of teams.
To make this game interesting, they really have to do what Nascar does and put in something into the sim where it narrows the gap to compensate for whatever is in place that is leading to these massive lop sided scores.
Look at our preseason games so far and how far apart we've been in these scores and I know we aren't that much "worse" than these scores indicate.
Game 1-Lost to the Grupies 73-3. Yeah they have an EL of 1136 and ours is 1066, but our two deep like mentioned above of the offense and defense is pretty darn close to them. Yet we're 70 points worse than them? SEVENTY?
Game 2-lost to OT Miracle 42-14. Our teams in EL are pretty much identical, if anything, our team as Yello will tell you, before the game predicted we'd win by 2-3 TDs. He's got dots on our squad so he's got a pretty good idea of what we have assembled. Instead, we have 9 turnovers and get blown out. Are you kidding? We've got well built RBs who have no history of fumbling, yet they fumble 7 times losing 6? Not to mention the 2 INTs in that one making it even worse.
Game 3-Voo Doo. Lost 66-7 and in this one our EL is slightly BETTER than theirs. Their QBs couldn't miss on anything, yet ours couldn't hit the broad side of a barn? Hell, their QB2 was 100% passing and he's not even close to the polished product our QB1 who went for 40%!
That's what has people pissed off and quitting this game. We're all sitting here with no idea what the hell is going on and no way to figure out WHY these games are blowouts when by all measurables we should've had some pretty competitive games.
If teams with very similar ELs are having this drastic of outcomes, that speaks to a BIG PROBLEM at the heart of how these games play out more than which teams are in which conferences especially if you have teams that will gut at first sign of not being able to "win it all" like we saw above.
The real problem your post speaks to is the rather ludicrous fact that this game is all about investing in numbers, when not one of us actually knows what those numbers really do in the game.
If there was more education, more transparency, that alone would go a long way to making the game more balanced and competitive.
bug03
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Originally posted by SLZmonster
but your my asshole bug....
Learn to use toilet paper...
but your my asshole bug....
Learn to use toilet paper...
beenlurken
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Originally posted by Ruger7mmmag
Originally posted by Ronnie Brown 23
I don't know if we'll be around next season either. I essentially have to recruit 40 dots, which is pretty much impossible. We might promote our farm team up, but they won't even have 64s yet.
Weak. We've been doing it since season 4 this way. If we don't have 40+ to recruit, I'm often in shock. We don't have a network so we never know what the end product is going to look like until right before the season. If GLB didn't penalize independent teams like us with huge chemistry hits, more teams would stick around instead of gutting. It sucks that you work your ass off to put a competitive team on the field and then get "chemed to death"...
which is funny because the chemistry hit was intending to penalize the big networks as well as network mergers to help the independent teams out.
Originally posted by Ronnie Brown 23
I don't know if we'll be around next season either. I essentially have to recruit 40 dots, which is pretty much impossible. We might promote our farm team up, but they won't even have 64s yet.
Weak. We've been doing it since season 4 this way. If we don't have 40+ to recruit, I'm often in shock. We don't have a network so we never know what the end product is going to look like until right before the season. If GLB didn't penalize independent teams like us with huge chemistry hits, more teams would stick around instead of gutting. It sucks that you work your ass off to put a competitive team on the field and then get "chemed to death"...
which is funny because the chemistry hit was intending to penalize the big networks as well as network mergers to help the independent teams out.
beenlurken
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Originally posted by steelerblitz
Originally posted by Plankton
I agree with 90% of what WJ says. I think the user community, as a whole, has changed, and that is a major reason that GLB is not as much fun for me as it once was. I also really hate the "we lost b.c we couldn't be bothered to gameplan" response. Have I lost b/c I ran out of time or were too busy to gameplan? Of course. But I would never post it as an excuse. Yet that mentality has become so prevalent now that gameplanning (i.e. actually playing the game you pay for) is actually frowned upon and winning after gameplanning somehow cheapens the win. How ludicrous is that?
The 10% that I do not agree is that Pro should stay the same. Devonport's farm team just got promoted to WEPL after going 11-5 and losing in the first round in Elite Reg. Pro. When we started that farm team, I had a goal of getting them to Pro before moving them to Devonport. I thought that was the epitome of success (having a Pro farm team and a WL main team). The reality is that having a Pro farm team now just proves that you can field a remotely well built team that is 320+ days old. We did not truly earn our pro spot, and thus it is not an accomplishment to be proud of.
I would love to see a contraction to 4 Pro leagues. That would make getting into Pro actually mean something. I realize that some teams would not make it to Pro, but I guess I don't buy the idea that Pro is a right that every team should have. I think it should be earned, and thus something to be proud of once you do earn it.
I know this may offend those that just promoted. If so, I am not trying to insult your efforts. But if you are honest with yourself (and have been around long enough), you have to admit that you had a harder time going from AA to AAA in Season 5 than you did going from Regional Pro to Pro in Season 21.
On a related note, I think alot of the fun that has been removed is the idea of promotions having meaning. Getting into an Elite minors league is not much harder than getting into Pro. Winning an Elite minors league is an accomplishment to be proud of, but the "promotions" throughout the minors are not meaningful. In the old pyramid, every team tried every season because winning was important. The top 2 or 3 had a shot to promote, and the champs auto-promoted. Thus, the prize was not a .gif so much as moving up in the GLB world.
That idea is completely gone now. I'm not sure we can get it back, but it is a big part of the decline of GLB, IMO.
Originally posted by Plankton
I agree with 90% of what WJ says. I think the user community, as a whole, has changed, and that is a major reason that GLB is not as much fun for me as it once was. I also really hate the "we lost b.c we couldn't be bothered to gameplan" response. Have I lost b/c I ran out of time or were too busy to gameplan? Of course. But I would never post it as an excuse. Yet that mentality has become so prevalent now that gameplanning (i.e. actually playing the game you pay for) is actually frowned upon and winning after gameplanning somehow cheapens the win. How ludicrous is that?
The 10% that I do not agree is that Pro should stay the same. Devonport's farm team just got promoted to WEPL after going 11-5 and losing in the first round in Elite Reg. Pro. When we started that farm team, I had a goal of getting them to Pro before moving them to Devonport. I thought that was the epitome of success (having a Pro farm team and a WL main team). The reality is that having a Pro farm team now just proves that you can field a remotely well built team that is 320+ days old. We did not truly earn our pro spot, and thus it is not an accomplishment to be proud of.
I would love to see a contraction to 4 Pro leagues. That would make getting into Pro actually mean something. I realize that some teams would not make it to Pro, but I guess I don't buy the idea that Pro is a right that every team should have. I think it should be earned, and thus something to be proud of once you do earn it.
I know this may offend those that just promoted. If so, I am not trying to insult your efforts. But if you are honest with yourself (and have been around long enough), you have to admit that you had a harder time going from AA to AAA in Season 5 than you did going from Regional Pro to Pro in Season 21.
On a related note, I think alot of the fun that has been removed is the idea of promotions having meaning. Getting into an Elite minors league is not much harder than getting into Pro. Winning an Elite minors league is an accomplishment to be proud of, but the "promotions" throughout the minors are not meaningful. In the old pyramid, every team tried every season because winning was important. The top 2 or 3 had a shot to promote, and the champs auto-promoted. Thus, the prize was not a .gif so much as moving up in the GLB world.
That idea is completely gone now. I'm not sure we can get it back, but it is a big part of the decline of GLB, IMO.
beenlurken
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Originally posted by Wolfpack Justice
What if we paired each League with a sister League, cut the teams in half and make each one a conference. So instead of Oceania and USA you would have 1 league with the USA Conference and the Oceania Conference? You would then do the same for the rest.
Edit***
You could even rotate the Conferences so that the pairings are different each season. That way the Oceania teams always play each other and you get to face off against another region each season. It's like a built-in region tournament all around every season.
GO GCMM!!!
-WJ
Or you could just read Wise's suggestion which is basically the same thing...
What if we paired each League with a sister League, cut the teams in half and make each one a conference. So instead of Oceania and USA you would have 1 league with the USA Conference and the Oceania Conference? You would then do the same for the rest.
Edit***
You could even rotate the Conferences so that the pairings are different each season. That way the Oceania teams always play each other and you get to face off against another region each season. It's like a built-in region tournament all around every season.
GO GCMM!!!
-WJ
Or you could just read Wise's suggestion which is basically the same thing...
beenlurken
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Originally posted by yello1
The real problem your post speaks to is the rather ludicrous fact that this game is all about investing in numbers, when not one of us actually knows what those numbers really do in the game.
If there was more education, more transparency, that alone would go a long way to making the game more balanced and competitive.
Do you read the forums... Bort really has nothing left to hide as far as what the numbers really do in the game. A huge problem with the game is that it has become too transparent. We may not know the exact numbers but they have explained just about every interaction and how attributes and modifiers come into play in those different situations.
I would strongly argue that this game has become too transparent. One of the things that was most exciting about this game was trying to figure out what made studs like Adam Avalanche and Denver The Last Dinosaur so amazing. Now, the entire game has been explained to us and when we see a stud dot doing something new it is pretty obvious how they are built. There is nothing left to figure out as far as what makes a great build.
The real problem your post speaks to is the rather ludicrous fact that this game is all about investing in numbers, when not one of us actually knows what those numbers really do in the game.
If there was more education, more transparency, that alone would go a long way to making the game more balanced and competitive.
Do you read the forums... Bort really has nothing left to hide as far as what the numbers really do in the game. A huge problem with the game is that it has become too transparent. We may not know the exact numbers but they have explained just about every interaction and how attributes and modifiers come into play in those different situations.
I would strongly argue that this game has become too transparent. One of the things that was most exciting about this game was trying to figure out what made studs like Adam Avalanche and Denver The Last Dinosaur so amazing. Now, the entire game has been explained to us and when we see a stud dot doing something new it is pretty obvious how they are built. There is nothing left to figure out as far as what makes a great build.
Originally posted by beenlurken
Do you read the forums... Bort really has nothing left to hide as far as what the numbers really do in the game. A huge problem with the game is that it has become too transparent. We may not know the exact numbers but they have explained just about every interaction and how attributes and modifiers come into play in those different situations.
I would strongly argue that this game has become too transparent. One of the things that was most exciting about this game was trying to figure out what made studs like Adam Avalanche and Denver The Last Dinosaur so amazing. Now, the entire game has been explained to us and when we see a stud dot doing something new it is pretty obvious how they are built. There is nothing left to figure out as far as what makes a great build.
After spending years and tons of cash making mistakes first.
At which time its too late to do anything with the knowledge for most players because they are quitting.
And apparently I am not reading the right forums, because I still dont know how everything works anywhere near the point of calling it transparent. Muddy Waters at best.
Do you read the forums... Bort really has nothing left to hide as far as what the numbers really do in the game. A huge problem with the game is that it has become too transparent. We may not know the exact numbers but they have explained just about every interaction and how attributes and modifiers come into play in those different situations.
I would strongly argue that this game has become too transparent. One of the things that was most exciting about this game was trying to figure out what made studs like Adam Avalanche and Denver The Last Dinosaur so amazing. Now, the entire game has been explained to us and when we see a stud dot doing something new it is pretty obvious how they are built. There is nothing left to figure out as far as what makes a great build.
After spending years and tons of cash making mistakes first.
At which time its too late to do anything with the knowledge for most players because they are quitting.
And apparently I am not reading the right forums, because I still dont know how everything works anywhere near the point of calling it transparent. Muddy Waters at best.
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