Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Bevo05
without a doubt it is much tougher and takes more skill at the WL level than PW Gold.

that's prolly coz the elite strategists in this game which take it seriously want to prove themselves that way by moving up to 'the main stage'= WL

Originally posted by zmj44
It takes a hell of a lot more dedication to get to WL...more than 1 year to see your players perform for what 2 seasons? Jeez

peewee is more about instant value for money and the ideal place to learn the game coz all the builds start off each season on equal terms, whereas the WL builds are a long term process which provide an ideal platform to display superior strategies and planning ~the only issue I have with this thread, is that if all agents are following the same build guides to make them 'elite' for WL, then what is the real difference between peewee and WL if all the builds are 'clones' in their corresponding leagues? ...may as well scrap long term building and make one and done players imo!

I'll take an invite.

Originally posted by Bevo05
I have done both.

Got SCSA to the WL twice (8-8 the first time, not so good the second time) as the OC. And run pretty much everything on the Pimps. And without a doubt it is much tougher and takes more skill at the WL level than PW Gold. Since the players can do more it just gives way more options. Not too mention it takes way more skill to build a player to 72 levels than 13-14 levels. Then throw in AEQ and VA's.

However that does not mean there is no skill in PW Gold because there is. I would probably compare it to a Pro League but with fewer CPU's

I think you are pretty good and I think it's quite an achievement that you were able to do decent in both WL and PW. So I hope you don't feel as if I'm trying to downgrade your achievements.

But your team is a good example of why PW is just as tough as WL if not tougher. You said you finished 8-8 the first time and failed in your 2nd try in WL. Well if you look at your team in Gold, you actually failed in your first try (5-11) and then finished 8-8 in your 3rd try. You did made it to playoff once but that was one season where everyone went no/no and your team had a huge advantage.

I have a feeling your team will be good this season but that would be after 3 seasons of PW gold experience. So that wouldn't prove much in which league would be better. Overall, your result in PW gold is very similar to WL and not the PL you seems to imply here.

Also keep in mind, you were able to enjoy a significant edge in gold being a team made up of 1-2 agents and the fact that you have the flex to field a fully boost/CE team whereas in WL you weren't able to enjoy those advantage. Despite the advantage you weren't able to beat out teams like final thought or SAS, teams that were heavily under-leveled and under-equipped.

However, I do agree with you in one thing. It's far more complex and difficult to build a good player in WL oppose to PW. It is why I feel that WL/PL is more build oriented than actual game planning. Even in PW where everyone starts in equal footing every season, there is a significant gap between builds (this however can be overcome unlike in WL). So I think it's pretty much a common sense on how big the build gaps are between top teams and average teams in WL.

That doesn't mean you can just win with builds alone in WL. But I would say in degree of importance WL would be 70%~75% about builds and 25%~30% game planning. In PW I would say it would be the opposite, the builds would be in the 30-35% range while game planning would be in 65-70% range.

At the end, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Obviously the guys in here would prefer PW since you can make a name for yourselves here without spending a single flex points. I just think it's just too much money to aim for WL over some lol75X75 gif trophy and also have to withstand a year of boredom. During the same period of time you can have 7-8 of competitive seasons in PW and have just as fun.

Yeah they are apples and oranges as far as OCing and DCing. It takes time to master either level. Chances are, if you are good at one level and put in the time, you would be good at the other.

Builds matter at both levels, if you don't have the right ones you are probably dead before you start unless you have vastly superior OCing/DCing.

Originally posted by juiceweezl
Originally posted by Granmarg

Didn't Duffman take a team to gold and had a team that won USAPL gold awhile ago?

Taking a team to Gold is one thing, being successful there is another. Duff had a good team last season, but he won his way to the league championship primarily because he boosted and on one else did. I don't think that was the case in the League championship, and I believe he won in double OT.

The PW game in Silver is about which quality coached team boosts and which one doesn't. Level 11's can't beat an entire roster of well build level 14's -- not if the team is prepared properly with this slam fest SIM.

Juice is right, I boosted specifically to get to gold, so I am not a good example yet. We'll see how this season plays out.

i have been building players for a while. Some points to make them better PLEASE SEND AN INVITE

Originally posted by The Duff Man
Juice is right, I boosted specifically to get to gold, so I am not a good example yet. We'll see how this season plays out.

BTW, that was not meant as a slam against you. Your team was a quality team, and it showed in the championship. I was just using your team as an example of how the level differences tell all at the Silver level between two quality teams. FWIW, I think you'll do fine in Gold. You've got a good grasp on the current SIM.

Reserved for edit when we find that the S20 SIM is an about face from S19.

Originally posted by RaphaneKnight
I think you are pretty good and I think it's quite an achievement that you were able to do decent in both WL and PW. So I hope you don't feel as if I'm trying to downgrade your achievements.

But your team is a good example of why PW is just as tough as WL if not tougher. You said you finished 8-8 the first time and failed in your 2nd try in WL. Well if you look at your team in Gold, you actually failed in your first try (5-11) and then finished 8-8 in your 3rd try. You did made it to playoff once but that was one season where everyone went no/no and your team had a huge advantage.



But the big difference is the effort the effort the WL team put in was vastly greater than the effort put forth on the Pee Wee team. Yet the results were similar. Had I put forth the time and effort into Pee Wee as I did on the WL team I have no doubts the results for the Pimps would be different. For the Pimps it has just been more a casual thing and pick things up as we have gone along and just try not to get demoted. We think we had some things click at the end of last season. But we will see if the care meter can stay up this season.

Originally posted by Bevo05
But the big difference is the effort the effort the WL team put in was vastly greater than the effort put forth on the Pee Wee team. Yet the results were similar. Had I put forth the time and effort into Pee Wee as I did on the WL team I have no doubts the results for the Pimps would be different. For the Pimps it has just been more a casual thing and pick things up as we have gone along and just try not to get demoted. We think we had some things click at the end of last season. But we will see if the care meter can stay up this season.



Not to strike up a debate, but okay I will. Perhaps game planning in PW is limited because the dots basically can't execute all the plays??? On the SR-22 team last season, I plugged the TE screen back in some. It was actually very successful (shockingly). I'd never consider that in PW because I know the dots can't execute it. I guess it goes 2 ways though. You can either quickly shrink the PW playbook, or spend extra time spinning your wheels trying to figure out what to run.

Originally posted by juiceweezl
Originally posted by Bevo05

But the big difference is the effort the effort the WL team put in was vastly greater than the effort put forth on the Pee Wee team. Yet the results were similar. Had I put forth the time and effort into Pee Wee as I did on the WL team I have no doubts the results for the Pimps would be different. For the Pimps it has just been more a casual thing and pick things up as we have gone along and just try not to get demoted. We think we had some things click at the end of last season. But we will see if the care meter can stay up this season.



Not to strike up a debate, but okay I will. Perhaps game planning in PW is limited because the dots basically can't execute all the plays??? On the SR-22 team last season, I plugged the TE screen back in some. It was actually very successful (shockingly). I'd never consider that in PW because I know the dots can't execute it. I guess it goes 2 ways though. You can either quickly shrink the PW playbook, or spend extra time spinning your wheels trying to figure out what to run.

I thought almost everything worked at one time or another in PW last season. There were a lot of plays (screens, weak pitches, inside PS runs, weakside FB runs, QB runs, etc) that could work against teams in the right situation. It used to be that you had to take about 30% of the plays out of the playbook b/c they just didn't work...ever.

Originally posted by Bevo05
But the big difference is the effort the effort the WL team put in was vastly greater than the effort put forth on the Pee Wee team. Yet the results were similar. Had I put forth the time and effort into Pee Wee as I did on the WL team I have no doubts the results for the Pimps would be different. For the Pimps it has just been more a casual thing and pick things up as we have gone along and just try not to get demoted. We think we had some things click at the end of last season. But we will see if the care meter can stay up this season.



Sorry I don't buy this. That's a lot of money you are putting into a team to not just get demoted and to play for casual. I hear this too much from teams that fully boost/CE and after they have a bad season they pretend like they didn't care. You are easily one of the biggest spender in west conf gold and has enjoyed a significant advantage over almost every team in the west and east. (also the fact that it's ran by 1-2 agents)

If you were a no/no team it would have made more sense but it just doesn't make sense why anybody would waste all that money to not just get demoted.

Again, I don't want to stir things up and wish you the best but let's not kid ourselves that it's the effort and skill that makes a good wl/pl team. Biggest factor is the money period. And people that choose not to open their wallet have no chance at all. That's not the case in PW or we wouldn't have teams like SAS or DorD.

Well even that is now in the past with the new DPC. Game planning is dead and now it's anybody's game in PW. A guy with the bigger wallet enjoys even a greater advantage. I don't think we'll see another SAS anymore, a dominant no/no team.

Anyway, I hope you don't take this the wrong way though since one of my closest friend (sigmike) is one of the top guys in WL and he is the best all-league coordinator I've seen. (easily) So I do have some respect for some WL guys but most of them are just buying their way to WL. I'm really sorry that we don't find the flex accomplishment from your peers all that impressive

Originally posted by PING72
I thought almost everything worked at one time or another in PW last season. There were a lot of plays (screens, weak pitches, inside PS runs, weakside FB runs, QB runs, etc) that could work against teams in the right situation. It used to be that you had to take about 30% of the plays out of the playbook b/c they just didn't work...ever.

Agreed, the TE screen was a staple for PNP last season...

In the early parts of the season hooks worked, but slants and go routes never did last season

Invite please

Originally posted by RaphaneKnight
Sorry I don't buy this. That's a lot of money you are putting into a team to not just get demoted and to play for casual. I hear this too much from teams that fully boost/CE and after they have a bad season they pretend like they didn't care. You are easily one of the biggest spender in west conf gold and has enjoyed a significant advantage over almost every team in the west and east. (also the fact that it's ran by 1-2 agents)

If you were a no/no team it would have made more sense but it just doesn't make sense why anybody would waste all that money to not just get demoted.

Again, I don't want to stir things up and wish you the best but let's not kid ourselves that it's the effort and skill that makes a good wl/pl team. Biggest factor is the money period. And people that choose not to open their wallet have no chance at all. That's not the case in PW or we wouldn't have teams like SAS or DorD.

Well even that is now in the past with the new DPC. Game planning is dead and now it's anybody's game in PW. A guy with the bigger wallet enjoys even a greater advantage. I don't think we'll see another SAS anymore, a dominant no/no team.

Anyway, I hope you don't take this the wrong way though since one of my closest friend (sigmike) is one of the top guys in WL and he is the best all-league coordinator I've seen. (easily) So I do have some respect for some WL guys but most of them are just buying their way to WL. I'm really sorry that we don't find the flex accomplishment from your peers all that impressive

I think you misunderstood. We understood that Peewee Gold is a process. It takes some time to adjust to what works and what doesn't gameplanning and build wise. The amount of time it takes is related to how much time and effort you want to spend on it. When I said it was casual thing and to pick things up as we went. What I meant by that was our goal has always been to win PW gold. We just didn't want to put in the effort to do it in one or two seasons. So if we win a game fine if not fine. We didn't spend a whole lot of time scouting other teams. We just kind of pick things up as we watch our games and go from there. So that by nature means it will take much longer than 1-2 seasons. Sure we want to win every game. We just haven't cared enough to take each individual game that serious. If we got demoted to silver we would probably not run a peewee team. So that is where the not get demoted came from.

In all reality our process has been do as little as possible to get in the playoffs and go from there. Sometimes we didn't do enough to get there. As for the money well everyone sees that differently and is a personal perspective. You say why would anyone waste that much money. I guess what you consider "much" others may consider "not that much".

As for the having a big advantage over other teams I don't buy that. I know last season we did not play against a single team where we had a level advantage from boosting. I was also under the impression that once they reduced the cost of CE most teams went full CE (most not all). But I certainly didn't check any of the teams looking to see who had CE and who didn't.

Your sadly mistaken if you think the biggest factor in the making of a good WL/PL team is money. All the WL/PL teams have full CE and boosting dots so the money is the same. It is the skill and effort in both game planning and player building that are the biggest factor in which of those teams are successful at that level. However, I do agree that you have to spend the money to get there. It is a requirement. Those that choose not to spend can not get to that level.

I can't really take what you said the wrong way because I have no allegiance to anyone at the WL level. Feel free to talk about them however you want.

Originally posted by Bevo05
I think you misunderstood. We understood that Peewee Gold is a process. It takes some time to adjust to what works and what doesn't gameplanning and build wise. The amount of time it takes is related to how much time and effort you want to spend on it. When I said it was casual thing and to pick things up as we went. What I meant by that was our goal has always been to win PW gold. We just didn't want to put in the effort to do it in one or two seasons. So if we win a game fine if not fine. We didn't spend a whole lot of time scouting other teams. We just kind of pick things up as we watch our games and go from there. So that by nature means it will take much longer than 1-2 seasons. Sure we want to win every game. We just haven't cared enough to take each individual game that serious. If we got demoted to silver we would probably not run a peewee team. So that is where the not get demoted came from.

In all reality our process has been do as little as possible to get in the playoffs and go from there. Sometimes we didn't do enough to get there. As for the money well everyone sees that differently and is a personal perspective. You say why would anyone waste that much money. I guess what you consider "much" others may consider "not that much".

As for the having a big advantage over other teams I don't buy that. I know last season we did not play against a single team where we had a level advantage from boosting. I was also under the impression that once they reduced the cost of CE most teams went full CE (most not all). But I certainly didn't check any of the teams looking to see who had CE and who didn't.

Your sadly mistaken if you think the biggest factor in the making of a good WL/PL team is money. All the WL/PL teams have full CE and boosting dots so the money is the same. It is the skill and effort in both game planning and player building that are the biggest factor in which of those teams are successful at that level. However, I do agree that you have to spend the money to get there. It is a requirement. Those that choose not to spend can not get to that level.

I can't really take what you said the wrong way because I have no allegiance to anyone at the WL level. Feel free to talk about them however you want.



I think you are trying "too hard" to explain how much you don't care, how little effort you put, and how you don't scout teams lol Just checked couple of your replays (sorry never scouted your team) and just even glancing it through it I can tell how much changes you made to your AI throughout the entire season. Don't try to down play your effort because you didn't have a good season.

I think you'll have hard time convincing anyone as long as your team continue to be one of the top spenders in the gold league. (2-man team) Obviously flex spending shows that you care more than most guys in PW gold. And as far as wasting money goes, I wasn't talking about the money itself. Hell I spent more money in one travel session then I have spent in this game. (and yes I travel a lot) But when you are paying 100$ over a bottle of orange pop and yeah I do think you are paying a lot and it can be considered waste of money. In this case, it would be the lol75X75 gif trophy.

Besides, one thing you need to know is that most of the top teams don't game plan every individual game like it's playoff, it's no different with most teams in gold. SOA is a good example, they played possum all season long and then surprised everyone in the playoff. It has nothing to do with the care meter, you guys weren't just good enough.

And no I'm not sadly mistaken with money being the biggest factor in upper league, in fact you agreed to me in your own reply. If skill and effort was the biggest factor then we would have no/no teams in WL/PL but that's not the case. Not even Bort himself can overcome the flex deficit there.

Oh and yeah, I was just playing with you with the last statements , I don't think you are a WL guy. In fact you have like 6 seasons of PW experience. That's more than some of the top coordinators in PW. You seems to be more of an all-league guy to me. Again, I'm just telling it as it is. Not trying to stir anything up, GL in gold next season.