Warrior General Games

Originally posted by taurran
and I've never seen a pass rushing DE with less than 90 speed lead the sack leader boards.

best DE i've ever seen had less than 90 speed fwiw.

Originally posted by BiggerBlue
It is definitely a holistic roll rather than attribute vs. attribute. If any DE builder hasn't figure this out yet, and then claims on this board he's an expert.....


You obviously don't understand the tradoffs in going heavy str/agi.

Originally posted by whatje
Originally posted by taurran

and I've never seen a pass rushing DE with less than 90 speed lead the sack leader boards.

best DE i've ever seen had less than 90 speed fwiw.

Which DE is this?

Originally posted by BiggerBlue
It is definitely a holistic roll rather than attribute vs. attribute. If any DE builder hasn't figure this out yet, and then claims on this board he's an expert.....


Coming from someone thinking they "know" much while playing at an AAA level.

There's a difference between speaking from experience and speaking from rolling on newbs all day long, pretending you're good.

Originally posted by taurran
No. Anyone that claims to, like the guy above, is just making guesses. A DE with 10000% to break blocks is worthless if he's a slow turd.

But not being slow as a turd helps with getting to the quarterback--I'm talking about the concrete 'block-breaking' mechanics.

I don't think it says 'compare OTs attribute x to DEs attribute x, then compare OTs attribute y to DEs attribute y' . . . as per what Bort has explained there is a break block formula--it isn't component-based. So it takes all the elements of the break block roll into consideration (although we don't know the exact formula, obviously) . . . so for example it could be (but isn't): 0.3(speed)+0.8(agility)+0.8(strength). Would obviously be much more complex and involve many more variables--break block%, SAs, secondary attributes, etc . . . . but the point is that the below statement is pretty much incorrect as per Bort:

"Against a OT that has 120+ strength, VAs, and hold block gear? Probably not too much. There are enough agility based break block SAs/VAs that you can get by with high agility/speed and be ok. You just need to ensure you have enough strength to stay off your ass all game.

IMO of course."

Not so much in the practicality as in the mechanics. I personally tend to agree with you that an 85 speed DE would tend to be ineffective (unless he's running 140+ strength or something), but strength will help your break block roll regardless of how strong the OT is. So while speed is important to be able to finish the job, you have to win the break block roll in the first place, and strength helps immensely with that regardless of the disparity between you and the OT. Fwiw I really like DEs with 100+ in all three at the moment--only disadvantage is they can't necessarily use Technique Man if they end up too balanced.

What I would say is

~Enough Agility to activate Technique Man
~Enough Speed to get to the QB after you break the block
~Everything else in Strength.

My DE will probably end up at around 113/91/112--hopefully that should fit what I described.

Originally posted by whatje
Originally posted by taurran

and I've never seen a pass rushing DE with less than 90 speed lead the sack leader boards.

best DE i've ever seen had less than 90 speed fwiw.

Meh...the best pass rushing DEs that I have seen have been 105-120+ speed.

The best run stoppers I have seen have been below 90 speed.

The best overall guys I have observed ranged from 85 to 98, but I never saw JJ's build and he was definitely the best pass rusher and best overall DE that I have seen in the game.

Originally posted by tautology
Meh...the best pass rushing DEs that I have seen have been 105-120+ speed.

The best run stoppers I have seen have been below 90 speed.

The best overall guys I have observed ranged from 85 to 98, but I never saw JJ's build and he was definitely the best pass rusher and best overall DE that I have seen in the game.




was in reference to builds i've seen personally, but you're right JJ was better.

seanb's DE, Window Licker, ran with less than 90 speed for a while, dunno what he's at now.

The best performing DEs over the past 2 seasons whose builds I have seen go with 95-100 speed, and have roughly 210 pts in strength + agility. The best pass rushers have had significantly more agility than strength. The best over all typically had slightly more strength than agility.

Originally posted by taurran
Coming from someone thinking they "know" much while playing at an AAA level.

There's a difference between speaking from experience and speaking from rolling on newbs all day long, pretending you're good.

Actually coming from someone that has play GLB since season 1 and made over 20+ DEs and yes, I had plenty of Pro experience. Sometimes I retire them at mid-levels because I was testing theories and they don't work as planned. Others are simply retired due to old age.

You do know players get old and are subject to retirement no?

With the close proximity between the DE collapsing the pocket and the QB, there simply isn't a big difference between 85 spd vs. 105 spd to justify all the points used on spd that can go elsewhere (say agi or str), anyway, it's a theory and one that I'm going to test.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
The best performing DEs over the past 2 seasons whose builds I have seen go with 95-100 speed, and have roughly 210 pts in strength + agility. The best pass rushers have had significantly more agility than strength. The best over all typically had slightly more strength than agility.

Would agree with this as well.

Originally posted by BiggerBlue
Originally posted by taurran

Coming from someone thinking they "know" much while playing at an AAA level.

There's a difference between speaking from experience and speaking from rolling on newbs all day long, pretending you're good.

Actually coming from someone that has play GLB since season 1 and made over 20+ DEs and yes, I had plenty of Pro experience. Sometimes I retire them at mid-levels because I was testing theories and they don't work as planned. Others are simply retired due to old age.

You do know players get old and are subject to retirement no?


http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=602765

Your oldest retired DE is a level 64 turdbucket with eff level 5 levels lower than actual.


FWIW I ran a DE with 124 agility today in WL and the results were less than impressive. I also have access to a build with ~130 agi and it only yielded 1 sack as well.

Originally posted by BiggerBlue
Originally posted by taurran

Coming from someone thinking they "know" much while playing at an AAA level.

There's a difference between speaking from experience and speaking from rolling on newbs all day long, pretending you're good.

Actually coming from someone that has play GLB since season 1 and made over 20+ DEs and yes, I had plenty of Pro experience. Sometimes I retire them at mid-levels because I was testing theories and they don't work as planned. Others are simply retired due to old age.

You do know players get old and are subject to retirement no?


http://goallineblitz.com/game/player_game_log.pl?player_id=1067023&season=16&stat_type=raw

Furthermore, your DE only had 22 sacks in games where you didn't blow out the opponents by 50 or more... in an AAA league. Your player isn't even 75 effective level at plateau. Apparently you haven't learned too much with the "20+" DEs you've built.

Where's your Pro experience outside S1 players that by default were in "Pro" regardless of builds?

Originally posted by taurran
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=602765

Your oldest retired DE is a level 64 turdbucket with eff level 5 levels lower than actual.


FWIW I ran a DE with 124 agility today in WL and the results were less than impressive. I also have access to a build with ~130 agi and it only yielded 1 sack as well.

130 agility is meh, because having it that high means your strength/speed kinda suck.

He should beast: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1292444

Hopefully.

100/90/100+ right now. Just working on equip upgrades and SA's. He should be close to 110/90ish/110 at some point.