Warrior General Games

Originally posted by SunshineMan89
My safety gives up 15 levels regularly. Yet he hasn't had that happen to him the entire season. Maybe it's because 110+ speed and 80+ vision is good.

Hasn't had what happen? You do realize that DC tactics play a much larger role in the game than it did many seasons before, correct? And, links to plays where your "superior" safety that is outleveled by 15 levels makes those tackles? You also know that those players whom might be 15 levels above you are probably season 2 or season 3 guys which did not use building strategies as later players? So, that point you tried to make is kind of moot.

Finally, since you are the "building master", what numbers do you think my safeties have for attributes? Curious to know from the "building master".

Originally posted by Challenge Everything
Hasn't had what happen? You do realize that DC tactics play a much larger role in the game than it did many seasons before, correct? And, links to plays where your "superior" safety that is outleveled by 15 levels makes those tackles? You also know that those players whom might be 15 levels above you are probably season 2 or season 3 guys which did not use building strategies as later players? So, that point you tried to make is kind of moot.

Finally, since you are the "building master", what numbers do you think my safeties have for attributes? Curious to know from the "building master".

I'm a building master; why don't you ask me?

Originally posted by Djinnt
I'm a building master; why don't you ask me?

You can give your input. I don't discriminate when it comes to knowledge. I would be interested to hear what you have to say/write.

how about a so-called hard hitting SS?

approximate, at level 56
80 speed
75 str
72 tack
70 vis
68 agi

no pts in SA's

110 speed for a FS is way too slow

Originally posted by Challenge Everything
Hasn't had what happen? You do realize that DC tactics play a much larger role in the game than it did many seasons before, correct? And, links to plays where your "superior" safety that is outleveled by 15 levels makes those tackles? You also know that those players whom might be 15 levels above you are probably season 2 or season 3 guys which did not use building strategies as later players? So, that point you tried to make is kind of moot.

Finally, since you are the "building master", what numbers do you think my safeties have for attributes? Curious to know from the "building master".

Look, I'm not going to get into an e-peen contest with you about whose safety is better, but looking at the replays of your guy getting faked off his ass and then being too slow to run down the HB, the obvious conclusion is "wow, I bet if that safety was faster and had more vision, that would be less likely to happen."

The only reason I posted the 'levels' comment is because you seemed to imply that being outleveled by 5 (in AA) was an excuse for getting burned. Then when I called you on this you retorted that my safety's success against much higher-leveled opponents (in USA Pro) was a poor example because of their poor builds? Um, what?

Again, I'm not trying to hate here, but realize that if you only take speed, agility, and vision to the 60 cap you are going to get faked out of your pants all the time and be totally immobile in Pro+.

I never claimed that my safety was 'superior' or that I was a 'building master;' in fact, I pretty clearly said that I was sure someone would have a more efficient SS build than mine. But when you post in a forum where new players often come for advice, and preach what at this point is a pretty radical build plan, you better have some credentials to back up your opinion, and your safety getting torched in AA does not speak well for your ideas.

Originally posted by SunshineMan89
Look, I'm not going to get into an e-peen contest with you about whose safety is better, but looking at the replays of your guy getting faked off his ass and then being too slow to run down the HB, the obvious conclusion is "wow, I bet if that safety was faster and had more vision, that would be less likely to happen."

The only reason I posted the 'levels' comment is because you seemed to imply that being outleveled by 5 (in AA) was an excuse for getting burned. Then when I called you on this you retorted that my safety's success against much higher-leveled opponents (in USA Pro) was a poor example because of their poor builds? Um, what?

Again, I'm not trying to hate here, but realize that if you only take speed, agility, and vision to the 60 cap you are going to get faked out of your pants all the time and be totally immobile in Pro+.

I never claimed that my safety was 'superior' or that I was a 'building master;' in fact, I pretty clearly said that I was sure someone would have a more efficient SS build than mine. But when you post in a forum where new players often come for advice, and preach what at this point is a pretty radical build plan, you better have some credentials to back up your opinion, and your safety getting torched in AA does not speak well for your ideas.

Yeah, your idea of "getting torched" differs from just about everyone. How was the safety "faked out" as you put it in the play? If you are going to question my credentials, which is kind of funny, then what credentials do you have? Your guy plays in US Pro? Awesome, a safety I retired used to play in Canadian Pro so I must have done something right. I am not going to get out the ruler with you however you have spit out numbers like 74/68/68 quite often... when are those numbers to be achieved? You mentioned the new players, well, give them more feedback than simply putting down 74/68/68. What do those numbers mean? When should they be reached? Why? How? TIA & HTH

Originally posted by boilerup
Just looking at my SS, and by no means do I know what I'm doing ... but my current plans will be at this when he boosts to 70 before his final season:

Speed 114.91 (+33)
Agility 87.46 (+9)
Strength 74.91
Vision 82.91 (+3)
Tackling 66.91
5 Change Direction
7 Super Vision
And right now Big Hit would be 11 to two AEQ pieces .... but that's up in the air. Just what I've found so far.

Jumping, stamina and confidence get trained from here on out ... not exactly sure on the numbers.

Whether that's good enough, I have no idea. But the sim will change enough that I'm sure there's no real way to guess right now. I guess I could get 8 SPs back for SAs by not bumping strength to the 73 cap. There's about 15 I could get back by leaving tackling lower. Those might be better served in Wrap-Up Tackle and Diving Tackle. I don't know ... I'm delaying those decisions until vision and agility are high enough.

Cool build. It sucks that agility has such pathetic auto-lvl gains on safeties. To get good agility you have to sacrifice in other areas which really sucks. Why agility isn't a major instead of stamina i'll never know. Not sure how bort figured that safeties who have to cover WRs, HBs and have to have bursts of speed shouldn't have agility as a major attribute. So much more would be possible build wise if it were.

Here's my input:
Speed is still the most important attribute for the majority of the defense.
Whether you're a safety, corner or linebacker, effectively making or missing a play depends mostly on whether or not you made it there in time. If you can't do that, there's no sense worrying about whether or not you swat away the ball, knock it free, make an interception, force a fumble, or even make the tackle. Not only will you make it to more plays, you'll get to the ones you do affect more quickly, meaning your opponents will gain less and less yards the faster you are.
I wouldn't have speed below 68 on any type of safety, and for most builds I wouldn't have it below 74.

Football is an intricate, fast-paced game, in and out of GLB.
It requires seeing the play, the ball, the players around it, the ones it could possibly go to, how soon it's coming, how fast it's thrown, who's blocking the runner and if all else succeeds, not biting a fake, what angle to approach for best results, so many things...
I wouldn't roll with less than 68 vision on a safety, ever. Simply for the fact that for a CB, vision is likely the most important stat, and if you expect to play coverage or handle WRs on any level, you will need to be as good or better than a CB.
In my experience, mobility is improved greatly in that less time is wasted, with each increase of vision.

What about 74 vision, then 74 speed, then 74 agility? You could get that done by level ~45, right? You'd then have plenty of time to cap tackling, strength, jumping, and catching, and then bring FS, CD, and SV up. Ideally you have an AEQ piece of SV, CS, and either FS or CD, so you only need to bring SV and FS or CD up to 4, saving a bunch of points. Put one piece of equip into agility, and the rest into speed, and you end up with something like a 110+ speed, 85+agility, 85+ vision FS.

Originally posted by marcello
What about 74 vision, then 74 speed, then 74 agility? You could get that done by level ~45, right? You'd then have plenty of time to cap tackling, strength, jumping, and catching, and then bring FS, CD, and SV up. Ideally you have an AEQ piece of SV, CS, and either FS or CD, so you only need to bring SV and FS or CD up to 4, saving a bunch of points. Put one piece of equip into agility, and the rest into speed, and you end up with something like a 110+ speed, 85+agility, 85+ vision FS.

Not bad for a FS so long as you don't neglect strength (especially) later on.
For an SS that's probably too much agility.

Originally posted by Djinnt
Not bad for a FS so long as you don't neglect strength (especially) later on.
For an SS that's probably too much agility.

Yeah, definitely for a FS.

All my safeties will have 80+ speed, 70+agility, 75+ vision, 70+ tackling, 62+ strength/jumping, 50+ sta/con and some wonderful SA's to go along with this.

Originally posted by Homage
All my safeties will have 80+ speed, 70+agility, 75+ vision, 70+ tackling, 62+ strength/jumping, 50+ sta/con and some wonderful SA's to go along with this.
At what level?

Originally posted by Challenge Everything

At what level?

this would obviously be 70ish... end game build. Although attribute wise would probably be achieved by mid to low 60's.