Originally posted by datongw
Originally posted by TrevJo
Average is better than what most people give them credit for.
And obv you didn't at all mention the strength of their offense which was the running game.
Well, I said "average at best"
. Although it is true that the strength of their offense was the running game, it was not a dominating running game, and it's not hard to be better than their passing offense, which was simply just horrid.
Just for fun I went back and checked up on Raven's SB run, some very interesting stats:
-Defense allowed 163 points in the regular season, just over 10 points a game, which is just dominating. In the playoffs it was even better, 23 points allowed in 4 games, less than 6 points a game, that is just nutty.
-In 4 playoff games, offense scored 7 TDs, defense and special teams scored 4 TDs (essentially outscoring their opponents). Against Tennessee, offense score 10, defense 14; in the SB, defense and special teams scored 14 points, doubling Giant's 7 points, which came on kickoff return.
-3 of the 4 playoff teams were held under 200 yards total offense;
-Forced 12 turnovers, including 5 in AFC Championship and 5 in SB;
Offensively:
-Team scored 67 offensive points in 4 playoff games, just under 17 points a game; But if you look at the total yards, it was pretty awful, 240, 134, 282 and 244 yards.
-Against Tennessee, the offense had 134 total yards, rushed 23 times for 49 yards;
-Against Oakland, offense scored on a 96 yard pass to Shannon Sharpe, that play accounted for 1/3 of their total yards. Rush game gained 110 yards, on 46 freaking carries. Despite getting 5 turnovers from the defense, offense only mustered 3 FGs rest of the game.
-In their last 7 games (3 regular season, 4 playoffs), the offense averaged 218 yards a game, 218!!!! Highest output was 282 yards (thanks to Sharpe's 96 yard reception).
After going back checking the stats. I'll admit I was wrong. The Baltimore offense was not average at best, it's pathetic. They could have won the league with any team's offense. Hell, they'd probably won with some of the college offenses. In 4 playoff games, the defense/ST out scored their opponent in 2 games and allowed 2 FGs total in the other 2.
The thing is, dude, I was at the Ravens/Raiders AFC Championship game. What you said about offenses playing conservative and sitting on it with a lead like 45-25... that was Baltimore if they got a 3 point lead. They were an extremely conservative offense because they could afford to be. But don't kid yourself, they could run the ball, and they made enough plays in the passing game that you couldn't completely sell out against the run. When Sharpe scored that 96 yard TD in the 2nd quarter, the game was over. Baltimore knew it and so did I. During warmups I was actually star struck by their role players. Not flashy guys, but good players. Everyone knew about the defense, Jamal Lewis, and Jonathan Ogden. Shannon Sharpe was of course a legitimate weapon at TE though, the rest of their OL was good, Brandon Stokley was a good receiver nobody knew about until the Super Bowl that year, Sam Gash was maybe the best FB in the game, hell they even had Ben Coates and Priest Holmes as backups. Outside of the QB and WR position you couldn't have asked for much more in an offense.
As far as yards per game, you don't rack up a lot of yards when you're not throwing the ball. That's true for any team.
Those last 7 games you talked about...
vs Cleveland, Jamal Lewis and Priest Holmes combined for 47 carries, 234 yds.
vs San Diego, not an impressive yards per carry average but they rushed 36 times, essentially running out the clock the whole second half
at Arizona, Lewis and Holmes rushed 33 for 154
vs Jets, the Ravens scored 3 return TDs, the offense barely even had to take the field, not even 50 plays, what do you expect, 400 yards?
vs Denver, again running out the clock throughout. Dilfer threw only 14 passes...for 130 yards. Lewis ran 30 times for 110. Again less than 50 offensive plays, they only needed to muster more than 3 points to win the game, and you're ripping them for not going over 300 yards?
vs Tennessee, again 2 return TDs keeping the offense off the field. Although this time that probably saved them since it was definitely a defensive slugfest. The Titans defense was awesome that year though. Dilfer was terrible and Lewis was contained.
at Oakland, I think it's funny that you want to take away that 96 yard TD. That was one of the most backbreaking plays I have ever seen. Even so this was probably their worst offensive game of the 7 other than the Tennesee game, so it's ironic that you think yards per game means anything, considering they gained their most yards in this one. But like I said, soon as they went up 7-0 everyone knew it was over, and then when Gannon's collarbone got crushed by fatass Siragusa, it was painfully obvious that they didn't have to worry about the Raiders scoring any points. The Raiders knew Baltimore was going to run, run, run, and the Ravens didn't care if they punted.
Super Bowl vs New York, Brandon Stokley broke the Giants' back just like Sharpe broke Oakland's. And again 2 return TDs kept Baltimore's O off the field. Still, Lewis rushed for over 100 yards, and the Ravens played a turnover-free game against a Giants D that had shut out the VIkings and forced 5 turnovers in the NFC Championship.
They were a very good running team with a low-octane but reliable passing game (with Dilfer). To say they were a pathetic offense is completely wrong, unless you're talking about the weeks Tony Banks started, because that guy cost them games all by himself. If tautology thinks he could have QBd for them that year he should review the Banks games. But who knows, maybe he's better than Banks, wouldn't be too shocking I guess.
Anyway, it's too bad you listed all those total yardage stats and ignored the fact that Lewis rushed for 4.4 per carry and Holmes 4.3 (pretty good considering defenses expected the run), Dilfer averaged a decent 6.65 ypa, and under Dilfer they averaged only 1 turnover per game (current NFL average is 1.5 turnovers per game).
Originally posted by TrevJo
Average is better than what most people give them credit for.
And obv you didn't at all mention the strength of their offense which was the running game.
Well, I said "average at best"
. Although it is true that the strength of their offense was the running game, it was not a dominating running game, and it's not hard to be better than their passing offense, which was simply just horrid.Just for fun I went back and checked up on Raven's SB run, some very interesting stats:
-Defense allowed 163 points in the regular season, just over 10 points a game, which is just dominating. In the playoffs it was even better, 23 points allowed in 4 games, less than 6 points a game, that is just nutty.
-In 4 playoff games, offense scored 7 TDs, defense and special teams scored 4 TDs (essentially outscoring their opponents). Against Tennessee, offense score 10, defense 14; in the SB, defense and special teams scored 14 points, doubling Giant's 7 points, which came on kickoff return.
-3 of the 4 playoff teams were held under 200 yards total offense;
-Forced 12 turnovers, including 5 in AFC Championship and 5 in SB;
Offensively:
-Team scored 67 offensive points in 4 playoff games, just under 17 points a game; But if you look at the total yards, it was pretty awful, 240, 134, 282 and 244 yards.
-Against Tennessee, the offense had 134 total yards, rushed 23 times for 49 yards;
-Against Oakland, offense scored on a 96 yard pass to Shannon Sharpe, that play accounted for 1/3 of their total yards. Rush game gained 110 yards, on 46 freaking carries. Despite getting 5 turnovers from the defense, offense only mustered 3 FGs rest of the game.
-In their last 7 games (3 regular season, 4 playoffs), the offense averaged 218 yards a game, 218!!!! Highest output was 282 yards (thanks to Sharpe's 96 yard reception).
After going back checking the stats. I'll admit I was wrong. The Baltimore offense was not average at best, it's pathetic. They could have won the league with any team's offense. Hell, they'd probably won with some of the college offenses. In 4 playoff games, the defense/ST out scored their opponent in 2 games and allowed 2 FGs total in the other 2.
The thing is, dude, I was at the Ravens/Raiders AFC Championship game. What you said about offenses playing conservative and sitting on it with a lead like 45-25... that was Baltimore if they got a 3 point lead. They were an extremely conservative offense because they could afford to be. But don't kid yourself, they could run the ball, and they made enough plays in the passing game that you couldn't completely sell out against the run. When Sharpe scored that 96 yard TD in the 2nd quarter, the game was over. Baltimore knew it and so did I. During warmups I was actually star struck by their role players. Not flashy guys, but good players. Everyone knew about the defense, Jamal Lewis, and Jonathan Ogden. Shannon Sharpe was of course a legitimate weapon at TE though, the rest of their OL was good, Brandon Stokley was a good receiver nobody knew about until the Super Bowl that year, Sam Gash was maybe the best FB in the game, hell they even had Ben Coates and Priest Holmes as backups. Outside of the QB and WR position you couldn't have asked for much more in an offense.
As far as yards per game, you don't rack up a lot of yards when you're not throwing the ball. That's true for any team.
Those last 7 games you talked about...
vs Cleveland, Jamal Lewis and Priest Holmes combined for 47 carries, 234 yds.
vs San Diego, not an impressive yards per carry average but they rushed 36 times, essentially running out the clock the whole second half
at Arizona, Lewis and Holmes rushed 33 for 154
vs Jets, the Ravens scored 3 return TDs, the offense barely even had to take the field, not even 50 plays, what do you expect, 400 yards?
vs Denver, again running out the clock throughout. Dilfer threw only 14 passes...for 130 yards. Lewis ran 30 times for 110. Again less than 50 offensive plays, they only needed to muster more than 3 points to win the game, and you're ripping them for not going over 300 yards?
vs Tennessee, again 2 return TDs keeping the offense off the field. Although this time that probably saved them since it was definitely a defensive slugfest. The Titans defense was awesome that year though. Dilfer was terrible and Lewis was contained.
at Oakland, I think it's funny that you want to take away that 96 yard TD. That was one of the most backbreaking plays I have ever seen. Even so this was probably their worst offensive game of the 7 other than the Tennesee game, so it's ironic that you think yards per game means anything, considering they gained their most yards in this one. But like I said, soon as they went up 7-0 everyone knew it was over, and then when Gannon's collarbone got crushed by fatass Siragusa, it was painfully obvious that they didn't have to worry about the Raiders scoring any points. The Raiders knew Baltimore was going to run, run, run, and the Ravens didn't care if they punted.
Super Bowl vs New York, Brandon Stokley broke the Giants' back just like Sharpe broke Oakland's. And again 2 return TDs kept Baltimore's O off the field. Still, Lewis rushed for over 100 yards, and the Ravens played a turnover-free game against a Giants D that had shut out the VIkings and forced 5 turnovers in the NFC Championship.
They were a very good running team with a low-octane but reliable passing game (with Dilfer). To say they were a pathetic offense is completely wrong, unless you're talking about the weeks Tony Banks started, because that guy cost them games all by himself. If tautology thinks he could have QBd for them that year he should review the Banks games. But who knows, maybe he's better than Banks, wouldn't be too shocking I guess.
Anyway, it's too bad you listed all those total yardage stats and ignored the fact that Lewis rushed for 4.4 per carry and Holmes 4.3 (pretty good considering defenses expected the run), Dilfer averaged a decent 6.65 ypa, and under Dilfer they averaged only 1 turnover per game (current NFL average is 1.5 turnovers per game).
Edited by TrevJo on Nov 13, 2009 00:51:11
Edited by TrevJo on Nov 13, 2009 00:49:15
