Warrior General Games

Originally posted by HurricaneBear
Originally posted by MD

Originally posted by HurricaneBear


Originally posted by MD



Originally posted by kurieg





Don't think this Changelog is going to do what you think it's going to do. This changelog had a lot more to do with G's just flat out ignoring things like blitzing safeties.

It was quite possible to do a 3-down linemen pass rush such that the G's have NOTHING to do, and a safety blitzing will just run around them with no interaction.

For this supposed "gap" exploit, it's quite clear that O-linemen can get a hand on the DE every time. Some teams do it.

I dont think so, its not just a fix for the guards, its a fix for the whole Oline. It wasnt just the Guards missing things with the bug, it was the OT as well.

Bort clarified flat out, there was a bug in the blocking. It had nothing to do with the DE being able to beat the block and everything to do with the DE benefiting from a bug, as well as other blitzers.

Bort also said there was a "bug" with DE's back when they first got nerfed. yet that season ESL had no trouble shutting out a People's Elbow who was one of these DE's "exploiting" a bug at the time.

Bort is looking out for his pocket first and foremost. Can't blame him. I would say things were a bug too if it would meant my users didn't think they sucked at my game. Sucking = quitting.


Of course Bort is looking out for #1, i would do the same, most would, your never gonna please everyone.

But this was pretty blatant. It wasnt just bad builds in this case, DEs were seriously "jumping" right over the line it seemed. I know people cry fowl on here all the time when Bort "fixes" stuff but this time it was warranted for sure.

In general though, this game has become a cryfest and then Bort caters to a small minority doing the complaining and in the process pisses off alot of others. He really needs to grow a set and build this game properly, not based on the whims of a few.

I agree with you completely here on the bolded part.

For the rest, I used to think it was a bug then I started arguing with some players in the general forums(1 reason I stick to SEA mostly) 68 agility guards getting owned on passing downs and them crying BUG! WTF do they expect? Think logically...a 50+ De probably has what...7+ in the pass rush abilities, at least 80 speed/agility and a good amount of strength as well? and thats not counting other abilties, or taking into account elite players who have even more. I just don't understand how people think an oline with 100+ str/blocking but 68ish agility can keep up with a player with 80's+ in there movement attributes.

Until I see pass blocking olines dominated I won't htink it's a bug personally.
I know my LT, even at a lower level, has more agility and speed than that.... But neither player blocks the DE, why... I dont understand how this cant be a bug...

Originally posted by HurricaneBear
Originally posted by MD

Originally posted by HurricaneBear


Originally posted by MD



Originally posted by kurieg





Don't think this Changelog is going to do what you think it's going to do. This changelog had a lot more to do with G's just flat out ignoring things like blitzing safeties.

It was quite possible to do a 3-down linemen pass rush such that the G's have NOTHING to do, and a safety blitzing will just run around them with no interaction.

For this supposed "gap" exploit, it's quite clear that O-linemen can get a hand on the DE every time. Some teams do it.

I dont think so, its not just a fix for the guards, its a fix for the whole Oline. It wasnt just the Guards missing things with the bug, it was the OT as well.

Bort clarified flat out, there was a bug in the blocking. It had nothing to do with the DE being able to beat the block and everything to do with the DE benefiting from a bug, as well as other blitzers.

Bort also said there was a "bug" with DE's back when they first got nerfed. yet that season ESL had no trouble shutting out a People's Elbow who was one of these DE's "exploiting" a bug at the time.

Bort is looking out for his pocket first and foremost. Can't blame him. I would say things were a bug too if it would meant my users didn't think they sucked at my game. Sucking = quitting.


Of course Bort is looking out for #1, i would do the same, most would, your never gonna please everyone.

But this was pretty blatant. It wasnt just bad builds in this case, DEs were seriously "jumping" right over the line it seemed. I know people cry fowl on here all the time when Bort "fixes" stuff but this time it was warranted for sure.

In general though, this game has become a cryfest and then Bort caters to a small minority doing the complaining and in the process pisses off alot of others. He really needs to grow a set and build this game properly, not based on the whims of a few.

I agree with you completely here on the bolded part.

For the rest, I used to think it was a bug then I started arguing with some players in the general forums(1 reason I stick to SEA mostly) 68 agility guards getting owned on passing downs and them crying BUG! WTF do they expect? Think logically...a 50+ De probably has what...7+ in the pass rush abilities, at least 80 speed/agility and a good amount of strength as well? and thats not counting other abilties, or taking into account elite players who have even more. I just don't understand how people think an oline with 100+ str/blocking but 68ish agility can keep up with a player with 80's+ in there movement attributes.

Until I see pass blocking olines dominated I won't htink it's a bug personally.


Supposedly Bort did test the bug with Olinemen with "High" Speed and Agility but im having trouble finding the thread it was in. I think a thread got deleted that i was reading last night that had that info.

Its possible Bort is still going to take back the change, as he said he might and if he did, he would remove it from the changelog. But nothing yet.

I don't think your OT is the problem though. People seemed to get , oh OT's are going against high agility/speed rushers. With the defensive player creator, people moved those speed rushers inside more. Add jump the snap and viola, you have players beating 100str/blocking guards while the OT is "checking" for an outside rush.

This is pure speculation, but I've always wondered if there's been a bug with lineman(O and D) but I also RARELY see people put points into vision on either line. At best its mid 50's, if that, usually 48 cap or less. I've always been of the opinion if you aren't at least to 60 in an attribute your "low" in that attribute. So these lineman have low vision and are missing there checks? I'd be interested to see a 70/70/70 strength/blocking/agility but 70 vision lineman in these instances and see if they check down and dominant the inside rush. add to that run blockers forced into passing situations, and you have the sim as it is now.

Bort's obvious intention in GLB was to make football players, not cap build. People moved away from football players after season 3 or 4 at the latest probably. I just think the majority wants to ignore certain attributes, and bort caves and gives in instead of coming out and saying, "38 vision on your guard? no wonder he fucking sucks!" this then gives the feel that it's a bug, not a player problem and they continue to push in the furture hoping to get there bad builds fixed.

Originally posted by Mad Cow
Originally posted by Voltron

Originally posted by Mad Cow


here is Naga, still a bit outragous




Sacks
Player Sacks
Jimi Morrison 62
William Davis 46
Rawr Rawr 39
Julius Sanders 23
Edgerrin Razorwire 19




Ok so you have 3 great DEs in Naga, then a few that average about 1-1.5 sacks a game. Not really outrageous

But its hardly favoring the O line though, I think besides the o line split, the DE-OT sim is ok



Ok 16 teams in naga, lets say each has 4 DEs. 64 DEs and only 4 broke 20 sacks so far.

Originally posted by MD
Originally posted by kurieg


Don't think this Changelog is going to do what you think it's going to do. This changelog had a lot more to do with G's just flat out ignoring things like blitzing safeties.

It was quite possible to do a 3-down linemen pass rush such that the G's have NOTHING to do, and a safety blitzing will just run around them with no interaction.

For this supposed "gap" exploit, it's quite clear that O-linemen can get a hand on the DE every time. Some teams do it.

I dont think so, its not just a fix for the guards, its a fix for the whole Oline. It wasnt just the Guards missing things with the bug, it was the OT as well.

Bort clarified flat out, there was a bug in the blocking. It had nothing to do with the DE being able to beat the block and everything to do with the DE benefiting from a bug, as well as other blitzers.

It was an example that showed one of the more absurd situations.

It's quite clear to anyone that really watches the PBP that the G's are interacting with the DEs on these gap-split sacks. Virtually everytime you can see a vector change in the DE coming away from the G, as well as a 2nd speed boost.

Build your LG like a pass blocker. Shit, sub a good LT in for the LG against those RDEs.

Originally posted by kurieg

It's quite clear to anyone that really watches the PBP that the G's are interacting with the DEs on these gap-split sacks. Virtually everytime you can see a vector change in the DE coming away from the G, as well as a 2nd speed boost.

Build your LG like a pass blocker. Shit, sub a good LT in for the LG against those RDEs.



this

Originally posted by kurieg
Originally posted by MD

Originally posted by kurieg



Don't think this Changelog is going to do what you think it's going to do. This changelog had a lot more to do with G's just flat out ignoring things like blitzing safeties.

It was quite possible to do a 3-down linemen pass rush such that the G's have NOTHING to do, and a safety blitzing will just run around them with no interaction.

For this supposed "gap" exploit, it's quite clear that O-linemen can get a hand on the DE every time. Some teams do it.

I dont think so, its not just a fix for the guards, its a fix for the whole Oline. It wasnt just the Guards missing things with the bug, it was the OT as well.

Bort clarified flat out, there was a bug in the blocking. It had nothing to do with the DE being able to beat the block and everything to do with the DE benefiting from a bug, as well as other blitzers.

It was an example that showed one of the more absurd situations.

It's quite clear to anyone that really watches the PBP that the G's are interacting with the DEs on these gap-split sacks. Virtually everytime you can see a vector change in the DE coming away from the G, as well as a 2nd speed boost.

Build your LG like a pass blocker. Shit, sub a good LT in for the LG against those RDEs.



So why would a LT just sit and watch a DE go right by him? Its not all on the Guard, if the DE is the only player rushing in from that side, why wouldnt the LT and the LG double team him. I have watched the replays, ive seen it happen. The interaction was messed up and the OG or the OT werent picking up the DE in alot of cases.

Sure the DE flat out beat the LG or LT on occasion but when teams are purposely placing the RDE in the "spot", knowing full well of the result from it, thats a bug.

Originally posted by HurricaneBear
I don't think your OT is the problem though. People seemed to get , oh OT's are going against high agility/speed rushers. With the defensive player creator, people moved those speed rushers inside more. Add jump the snap and viola, you have players beating 100str/blocking guards while the OT is "checking" for an outside rush.

This is pure speculation, but I've always wondered if there's been a bug with lineman(O and D) but I also RARELY see people put points into vision on either line. At best its mid 50's, if that, usually 48 cap or less. I've always been of the opinion if you aren't at least to 60 in an attribute your "low" in that attribute. So these lineman have low vision and are missing there checks? I'd be interested to see a 70/70/70 strength/blocking/agility but 70 vision lineman in these instances and see if they check down and dominant the inside rush. add to that run blockers forced into passing situations, and you have the sim as it is now.

Bort's obvious intention in GLB was to make football players, not cap build. People moved away from football players after season 3 or 4 at the latest probably. I just think the majority wants to ignore certain attributes, and bort caves and gives in instead of coming out and saying, "38 vision on your guard? no wonder he fucking sucks!" this then gives the feel that it's a bug, not a player problem and they continue to push in the furture hoping to get there bad builds fixed.


So the question becomes why is it effective to build DE's with 95-100 speed agility and just 68 strength and expect him to compete with a guy that is 95-100 blocking and 68 agility?

Why is it ok for DE to have less than 60 tackling. As you consider less than 60 low shouldn't this guy have a problem actually bringing down a high strength QB?

Same with vision. Shouldn't a guy below 60 get off the ball a lot later than a Guard with vision over 60?

Why is it ok for DE to have only 3 skills over 60 and still be successful yet claim a G should be 70-70-70-70.

Why isn't the answer to the whole situation that the DE builds are flawed and the OL is right.

Why don't these DE get blown off the ball in the run game?

I find it funny when people with cartoonish builds blame the problem on flawed builds.

PS Padilla isn't far from being at least a 70-70-70-70 guy so that probably isn't the answer.

Originally posted by Porch
Originally posted by HurricaneBear

I don't think your OT is the problem though. People seemed to get , oh OT's are going against high agility/speed rushers. With the defensive player creator, people moved those speed rushers inside more. Add jump the snap and viola, you have players beating 100str/blocking guards while the OT is "checking" for an outside rush.

This is pure speculation, but I've always wondered if there's been a bug with lineman(O and D) but I also RARELY see people put points into vision on either line. At best its mid 50's, if that, usually 48 cap or less. I've always been of the opinion if you aren't at least to 60 in an attribute your "low" in that attribute. So these lineman have low vision and are missing there checks? I'd be interested to see a 70/70/70 strength/blocking/agility but 70 vision lineman in these instances and see if they check down and dominant the inside rush. add to that run blockers forced into passing situations, and you have the sim as it is now.

Bort's obvious intention in GLB was to make football players, not cap build. People moved away from football players after season 3 or 4 at the latest probably. I just think the majority wants to ignore certain attributes, and bort caves and gives in instead of coming out and saying, "38 vision on your guard? no wonder he fucking sucks!" this then gives the feel that it's a bug, not a player problem and they continue to push in the furture hoping to get there bad builds fixed.


So the question becomes why is it effective to build DE's with 95-100 speed agility and just 68 strength and expect him to compete with a guy that is 95-100 blocking and 68 agility?

Why is it ok for DE to have less than 60 tackling. As you consider less than 60 low shouldn't this guy have a problem actually bringing down a high strength QB?

Same with vision. Shouldn't a guy below 60 get off the ball a lot later than a Guard with vision over 60?

Why is it ok for DE to have only 3 skills over 60 and still be successful yet claim a G should be 70-70-70-70.

Why isn't the answer to the whole situation that the DE builds are flawed and the OL is right.

Why don't these DE get blown off the ball in the run game?

I find it funny when people with cartoonish builds blame the problem on flawed builds.

PS Padilla isn't far from being at least a 70-70-70-70 guy so that probably isn't the answer.


Alot of DEs have 60 tackling and vision tbh. Also DEs need 9-10 in 3 SAs just to be effective pass rushers, Guards don't.

I guarantee that one of the top DE's in this league does not have 60 tackling and vision.

However that fails to answer of the question of if your take is the G doesn't have sufficient agility/speed why is it ok for yor DE to lack strength and tackling. All I am saying is if you think your guy blowing through the G like he isn't there because of your superior agility and speed then you should agree that your DE should get destroyed anytime a G gets a hold of you in the run game.

Also Hurricane stated he thought 60 was still low so "low" vision is acceptable to get great jumps and "low" tackling is ok to go with it.

I just find it funny by that DE's who primarily pump speed and agility like to talk about the bad builds of OL and ignore that they should have a weakness.

Originally posted by Porch
I guarantee that one of the top DE's in this league does not have 60 tackling and vision.

However that fails to answer of the question of if your take is the G doesn't have sufficient agility/speed why is it ok for yor DE to lack strength and tackling. All I am saying is if you think your guy blowing through the G like he isn't there because of your superior agility and speed then you should agree that your DE should get destroyed anytime a G gets a hold of you in the run game.

Also Hurricane stated he thought 60 was still low so "low" vision is acceptable to get great jumps and "low" tackling is ok to go with it.

I just find it funny by that DE's who primarily pump speed and agility like to talk about the bad builds of OL and ignore that they should have a weakness.

Yes, I lack Strength and tackling and you can tell that in the running game. Btw my strength isn't low.

....there have been examples of DE's getting blown up in the run game.. Did you guys NOT see the Rawr Rawr jokes Bandar was making?

Its a catch 22 in a lot of ways, but honestly, the guards are being exploited for dudes mostly pouring everything into blocking/strength.. While the OT's seemingly are getting caught for ignoring vision (from what I have heard.)

And to oppose some of the DE hating, I know for a fact some of the better DE's in the league are high in more than just Speed/Agl like people are generalizing us.


Overall, I think it is a problem, but its not this HUGE bug to be exploited. Its a combination of a lack of vision checks from the o-line and all the other reasons people have given for G's to fail. I think Bort should tinker with the OT vision check and get them to notice the DE is lined up inside. That split second where the OT first goes outside would cut down the issue some.

Originally posted by MD

In general though, this game has become a cryfest and then Bort caters to a small minority doing the complaining and in the process pisses off alot of others. He really needs to grow a set and build this game properly, not based on the whims of a few.

QFT

Originally posted by Germs
....there have been examples of DE's getting blown up in the run game.. Did you guys NOT see the Rawr Rawr jokes Bandar was making?

Its a catch 22 in a lot of ways, but honestly, the guards are being exploited for dudes mostly pouring everything into blocking/strength.. While the OT's seemingly are getting caught for ignoring vision (from what I have heard.)

And to oppose some of the DE hating, I know for a fact some of the better DE's in the league are high in more than just Speed/Agl like people are generalizing us.


Overall, I think it is a problem, but its not this HUGE bug to be exploited. Its a combination of a lack of vision checks from the o-line and all the other reasons people have given for G's to fail. I think Bort should tinker with the OT vision check and get them to notice the DE is lined up inside. That split second where the OT first goes outside would cut down the issue some.

So what's high in strength?

I know for a fact that some of the better DE's in this league has Strength's in the 60's. Considering that people have already stated that Agility in the 60's is low it stands to reason strength in the 60's is low.

they're held to different standards. strength at 80 can be considered monstrous, speed at 80 can be considered sluggish. just how the game rolls.