Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
Originally posted by OMGWTF

Have you actually built any successful high-level HB's or are you just recycling the powerback build cliché? What your suggesting is wildly successful in lower leagues, but it will get smoked in the PROs.

Originally posted by OMGWTF

My gut tells me that he'll never be productive in a PRO league, but I'd love for you to prove me wrong.

Apparently building a successful high-level HB doesn't give you insight into how all high level HB-builds will turn out. So your attempts at shutting me up are hypocritical and grant nothing to your point.

I don't get my opinions on builds from reading, I get them from watching match-ups.

Ah, you're one of those pro e-debaters? Yall are fun. Unfortunately saying something in an attempt to be clever will never take the place of wisdom and experience.

Building high-level HB's doesn't give me insight into how all high-level HB builds will turn out, but player builder does. Having friends who build different types of backs and who are very successful at it also doesn't hurt.

You get your information from watching match ups? The ones which have both seen and unseen variables that don't allow you to draw anything more than ballpark conclusions? You need to refine your sample!

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
Originally posted by OMGWTF

Have you actually built any successful high-level HB's or are you just recycling the powerback build cliché? What your suggesting is wildly successful in lower leagues, but it will get smoked in the PROs.

Originally posted by OMGWTF

My gut tells me that he'll never be productive in a PRO league, but I'd love for you to prove me wrong.

Apparently building a successful high-level HB doesn't give you insight into how all high level HB-builds will turn out. So your attempts at shutting me up are hypocritical and grant nothing to your point.

I don't get my opinions on builds from reading, I get them from watching match-ups.

stop it, you're just making yourself look silly.

the dude knows what he's talkin about. all the strength in the world won't help if you're getting jacked up by fast strong linebackers with force fumble VA's out the ass.

edit: don't believe me? here's a game where i went pure strength eq. notice how slow my RB cuts and, consequently gets jacked by the SS.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=495181&pbp_id=11132603

since you like to watch matchups, maybe that'll make sense to you

Originally posted by OMGWTF
Ah, you're one of those pro e-debaters? Yall are fun. Unfortunately saying something in an attempt to be clever will never take the place of wisdom and experience.

Building high-level HB's doesn't give me insight into how all high-level HB builds will turn out, but player builder does. Having friends who build different types of backs and who are very successful at it also doesn't hurt.

You get your information from watching match ups? The ones which have both seen and unseen variables that don't allow you to draw anything more than ballpark conclusions? You need to refine your sample!

Pro E-debaters? That's cute. I'm just pointing out that all you elitist types like to make your point appear more valid by discrediting the opposition (protip: doesn't do anything) but you'd definitely have to try harder than "where's your uber successful level 50 HB?" to do it. Anybody can speculate, and that's what you and I are both doing. That's made apparent by your own admission of guesswork using your gut.
Playing the my opinion's better than yours game doesn't make you look like a cool guy.

Originally posted by rmiller517
stop it, you're just making yourself look silly.

the dude knows what he's talkin about. all the strength in the world won't help if you're getting jacked up by fast strong linebackers with force fumble VA's out the ass.

edit: don't believe me? here's a game where i went pure strength eq. notice how slow my RB cuts and, consequently gets jacked by the SS.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=495181&pbp_id=11132603

since you like to watch matchups, maybe that'll make sense to you

I wouldn't sell myself out for strength, more likely carry, and you obviously need more than two attributes to build a successful player. But you can't break tackles without strength (try to argue that?) and breaking tackles is what power backs do. As for that play you linked, looks like you need some better OCing or a stronger line because most people employing that pitch and similar with a power back average decent yardage in my experience. At least they did last season and the season prior.

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks

Pro E-debaters? That's cute. I'm just pointing out that all you elitist types like to make your point appear more valid by discrediting the opposition (protip: doesn't do anything) but you'd definitely have to try harder than "where's your uber successful level 50 HB?" to do it. Anybody can speculate, and that's what you and I are both doing. That's made apparent by your own admission of guesswork using your gut.
Playing the my opinion's better than yours game doesn't make you look like a cool guy.

I'm not even going to get into the points that you've neglected to address (uh, player builder?). I am not speculating, I have built a successful HB and have been involved with the development of all three of the HB's on the Banzai Pipeline 'Nites. I have learned through first-hand experience, not "comparing matchups." YOU are speculating, I am not. I have also been involved with countless other HB builders both in PM as well as in a private forum and tried my damnedest to help others learn from my failures and successes.

The advice you've given in this thread has been sub-par at best, as evidenced by your poorly-diagnosed response to rmiller's replay. Fortunately you said that it averages decent yardage "in [your] experience," which isn't much so it covers your ignorance.

The least you can do is parrot GOOD advice, it's like you're working at an electronics store touting the benefits of VHS.

Originally posted by OMGWTF
I am not speculating, Yes you are. Everything said in this game aside from what Bort says (and even some of that) is based purely on speculation. Having access to 3, 5, or 100 HBs makes you no different than the rest of GLB. You're still just listening to people, watching the sim, assuming which attributes are in play and drawing conclusions.

Originally posted by OMGWTF
The advice you've given in this thread has been sub-par at best, as evidenced by your poorly-diagnosed response to rmiller's replay. Fortunately you said that it averages decent yardage "in [your] experience," which isn't much so it covers your ignorance. Personally don't believe one replay or even one game will tell you almost anything. I also haven't been giving advice, just stating my opinion (this is a forum).

Originally posted by OMGWTF
The least you can do is parrot GOOD advice, it's like you're working at an electronics store touting the benefits of VHS. As above


Who doesn't use the player builder? I've been using it since Puma first made it.

If you think there is a "right" and "wrong" way to build a player, aside from the fact that if you use your SP/training inefficiently you'll be worse off, then you're arrogant and full of shit. This game is all about who you're facing. But good argument. /clap I'm definitely less caustic than you are.

You have to believe I have no credibility so that you can believe you're right. It's kind of sad. Instead of focusing on why I am or am not in a place to "give advice", why don't you just address what I'm talking about instead of trying to resort to personal attacks? It's kind of weak.

First, I'd like to apologize for my attitude. I'm a very strong willed person and it comes off like a strong arm sometimes. My general intent is to share information and debate builds, not to be a prick, however do not mistake my humility for weakness.

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
You have to believe I have no credibility so that you can believe you're right. It's kind of sad. Instead of focusing on why I am or am not in a place to "give advice", why don't you just address what I'm talking about instead of trying to resort to personal attacks? It's kind of weak.

Alright, state the points of your argument and I'll agree, clarify, or refute. I'm having a hard time even understanding what you're trying to say other than calling me arrogant and an elitist.

This is what I have a major disagreement with:

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
It's reasonable to have 77+ natural strength, 68+ natural carrying and 60+ natural speed/agility for any power back.

Your argument seems to be that there is no "right" or "wrong" way to build a player. Sure, alright, if you want to argue semantics. There are effective and ineffective/less effective ways to build a player. This build is less effective in higher leagues due primarily to a lack of speed, which was my original point: powerbacks will see increased productivity in higher speed when compared to higher strength/carrying at the sacrifice of speed.

Originally posted by
Saying otherwise is silly.

Why?

Originally posted by
And what else do you need? Vision? Not really, you're running straight into guys.

Confidence, stamina, and vision. Yes, you do need vision, especially now that dots slow down more when breaking a tackle. Increased vision allows an higher chance to pass vision checks to react and avoid tackles, and when you're running on -100 to -50 you have considerably fewer checks than running on 50 to 99/100.

So, as a reminder: my main point is that the build you suggested is largely inefficient at higher levels. The point of these forums isn't to help agents create less efficient builds, it's to share information and help one another build our dots to be more effective.

Yeah, but the guy already has his mind made up on what he's going to do and has built players before. I understand if you're trying to deter less experienced builders from making bad choices but he thinks having high strength will be a good choice.
The way I see it, the game you're playing at level 50 is a different game than the one he'll be playing when he's level 50, so whether it will work or not is anybody's guess. The game could be completely different by then, and/or he could be facing a different type of defense on average.

I don't personally like vision for offensive players except certain WR builds. HB, not so much.
as for this:
It's reasonable to have 77+ natural strength, 68+ natural carrying and 60+ natural speed/agility for any power back. More isn't crazy to imagine. Saying otherwise is silly.
The saying otherwise is silly part refers to being able to have that many SP distributed by career finality (or near it). Actually my 23 HB isn't that far away from it, so you'd have quite a few points left for stamina, confidence, speed if you want, and SAs.
And yeah, more speed couldn't hurt a power back (or any other for that matter)

I made that comment arguing on the basis that getting any attribute to ~80 wouldn't be a "detriment" to your overall build/other attributes. I firmly believe against that. Without getting at least one attribute to 80 on almost any position, you'll probably suffer in the long run.

I started the biggest thread on here, I am proud of myself. Anyway I could also switch it up so I get 100 Strength which I already do with equipment on and get like 100 speed with the equipment I get from now on and good amount of agility. Then put a ton of stuff on powerback SAs.

Your proud that your thread got turned into a frenzy of misinformation? Lol.

Originally posted by rmiller517
Your proud that your thread got turned into a frenzy of misinformation? Lol.

ya haha

Originally posted by rmiller517
Your proud

His proud what?

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
Originally posted by rmiller517

Your proud

His proud what?

excuse me for being gramatically incorrect, asshole. i was on my cell phone

Originally posted by rmiller517
incorrect, asshole.

Doesn't need a comma.