Warrior General Games

Yup, MEM started putting us away from two of these early in our game. I was hoping for a good game after a quarter but our offense never got going after the KL INTs in the second.

Originally posted by Galkuris
Yup, MEM started putting us away from two of these early in our game. I was hoping for a good game after a quarter but our offense never got going after the KL INTs in the second.

Same thing in the WW/TEX game.

2 early KL+INT, one returned for a TD really put us in a hole. Not to mention the morale loss on these passes.

Originally posted by chronoaug
The thing is THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KNOCKED LOOSE BALLS OR CARRYING/CATCHING but only about what happens once the ball is knocked loose. Bort did something on 5/14 while making other updates that unintentionally caused either the knocked loose balls to fly straight in the air and easily catchable, or made catching/vision checks non-existent and as long as the CB is there he can grab it out of the air.

You don't "unintentionally" add code for INT check after the ball is knocked loose, you either add the code for it or don't add the code.

Originally posted by murgy

60 Carrying on my WR with about 8 knocked loose drops. The only drops of his season. 4 of those were picks. There's not many WRs with more carrying than 60. 70 Catching as well. Now show me a CB/LB/FS/SS with more catching than 70, or more carrying than 60 and maybe you have an argument. Why arent these DBs/LBs held to the same catching standards as a WR? You're one of the most ridiculous posters i've ever had to read.

This argument is pretty lame. WRs don't have to work on strength and tackling, besides, even if the DB has the same catching as the WRs, WR will still catch more passes.

Originally posted by datongw
Originally posted by chronoaug

The thing is THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KNOCKED LOOSE BALLS OR CARRYING/CATCHING but only about what happens once the ball is knocked loose. Bort did something on 5/14 while making other updates that unintentionally caused either the knocked loose balls to fly straight in the air and easily catchable, or made catching/vision checks non-existent and as long as the CB is there he can grab it out of the air.

You don't "unintentionally" add code for INT check after the ball is knocked loose, you either add the code for it or don't add the code.

Well according to Bort through r8, he doesn't know what made the KL+INT spike happen. So obviously something was changed in the code. It could have been a different change to cause this to happen.

nevermind. kron covered it

Originally posted by lawdawg95
Not trying to stir the pot any further, but this play says "knocked loose, INT" but really is it all THAT unreasonable? You've got 3 DBs surrounding the WR as the ball comes in and it's not like the ball is noticeably knocked in the air. Other than the fact that it SAYS knocked loose I wouldn't have known this was a result of the KL bug.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=473806&pbp_id=17013171



edit - I'm not claiming the KL situation isn't pretty stupid sometimes, but not 100% of the time that it says "Knocked Loose" does it mean something stupid happened imo.

Some of the knocked loose should be fumbles imo. Most of the knocked loose plays happen when the defender accelerates to catch up and knocks the ball loose, which probably is them running through the WR after the catch.

WRs don't fumble enough in this game. How many fumbles would we be seeing if all the HBs has same carrying as most of the WRs have as of right now? The game would be a fumble fest, WRs have been getting away with fumbling the ball even though they have low carry for a long time, so it all evens out imo.

Originally posted by datongw
Originally posted by murgy


60 Carrying on my WR with about 8 knocked loose drops. The only drops of his season. 4 of those were picks. There's not many WRs with more carrying than 60. 70 Catching as well. Now show me a CB/LB/FS/SS with more catching than 70, or more carrying than 60 and maybe you have an argument. Why arent these DBs/LBs held to the same catching standards as a WR? You're one of the most ridiculous posters i've ever had to read.

This argument is pretty lame. WRs don't have to work on strength and tackling, besides, even if the DB has the same catching as the WRs, WR will still catch more passes.


I doubt any of those CB's had strength and tackling high enough to knocked loose on a WR with 70+ catching and 60+ carrying.

Point is, this isn't a build issue. It's clearly something wrong considering none of this was happening before 5/14. (KL+INT)

if this was happening at the start of the season, i could see your point but it wasn't and it's clear as day.

Originally posted by r8
Originally posted by chronoaug

Just curious but these INTs weren't happing that frequently until recently. What happened to make things different from the first 5-6 games of the season?

To be totally honest, we have no clue. That's been the main subject of discussion trying to figure out what the hell caused the sudden increase. Stobie studied a few teams that found almost 0 knockled loose INTs before 5-14, and a bunch of them after it.

These are the updates from 5-14:

Originally posted by Changelog

May 14, 2009
- Defenders can now stun blockers when pass rushing and doing swim/rip moves.
- Fix to problem where defender would freeze sometimes on pitch play
- Update to KOS/KRS to make subs from these use energy setting properly when filling in the special teams slots
- Update to out of bounds logic to make sure sideline has avoidance vector added when player doesn't want to go out of bounds
- Update to LB logic, to make them better follow the trajectory of the player being covered on rushing plays. Should keep them from drifting inside away from the play like they had been.

And none of those really have to do with passing. Bort has double checked through the code from those updates and can't seem to find anything either. Just one of those strange anomalies in coding I guess.

Also, those knocked loose passes should not be fumbles, the WR may not fumble enough but you don't compensate for it with a different messed up part of the sim. The WR doesn't take a step, the ball is knocked out immediately.

I don't know what the code looks like, but it probably is something similar to this:

Pass thrown;
check for int;
check for deflection;
.
.
.
check for knock loose;
check for INT after knock loose;

Obviously, once the ball is knocked loose, Bort could easily end the play right there, calling it an incomplete pass. For INT to happen after knocked loose pass, there has to be additional code in there that checks for INTs after the knocked loose happened. These codes don't just appear out of the blue, someone has to put it in there. It's really not that difficult to find out why this is happening.

Originally posted by kr0n
if this was happening at the start of the season, i could see your point but it wasn't and it's clear as day.

Originally posted by r8

Originally posted by chronoaug


Just curious but these INTs weren't happing that frequently until recently. What happened to make things different from the first 5-6 games of the season?

To be totally honest, we have no clue. That's been the main subject of discussion trying to figure out what the hell caused the sudden increase. Stobie studied a few teams that found almost 0 knockled loose INTs before 5-14, and a bunch of them after it.

These are the updates from 5-14:

Originally posted by Changelog


May 14, 2009
- Defenders can now stun blockers when pass rushing and doing swim/rip moves.
- Fix to problem where defender would freeze sometimes on pitch play
- Update to KOS/KRS to make subs from these use energy setting properly when filling in the special teams slots
- Update to out of bounds logic to make sure sideline has avoidance vector added when player doesn't want to go out of bounds
- Update to LB logic, to make them better follow the trajectory of the player being covered on rushing plays. Should keep them from drifting inside away from the play like they had been.

And none of those really have to do with passing. Bort has double checked through the code from those updates and can't seem to find anything either. Just one of those strange anomalies in coding I guess.

Also, those knocked loose passes should not be fumbles, the WR may not fumble enough but you don't compensate for it with a different messed up part of the sim. The WR doesn't take a step, the ball is knocked out immediately.

I know that it didn't happen before the 5/14th update, that's not my point. But to say that this was unintended is a bit unbelievable to me. I'll buy the int rate is too high and that is unintended, but I won't buy that the int after knocked loose is unintended.

By definition, a pass that is caught and knocked loose is a fumble. If the WR doesn't have possession then it's not a catch, if it's a catch, then he already has possession, and knocking it loose would be ruled a fumble.

bort doesn't know what caused this. doesn't that mean it's unintended? to be intended wouldn't he have to know what happened and did something specific to create more ints?

Originally posted by datongw
Originally posted by kr0n

if this was happening at the start of the season, i could see your point but it wasn't and it's clear as day.

Originally posted by r8


Originally posted by chronoaug



Just curious but these INTs weren't happing that frequently until recently. What happened to make things different from the first 5-6 games of the season?

To be totally honest, we have no clue. That's been the main subject of discussion trying to figure out what the hell caused the sudden increase. Stobie studied a few teams that found almost 0 knockled loose INTs before 5-14, and a bunch of them after it.

These are the updates from 5-14:

Originally posted by Changelog



May 14, 2009
- Defenders can now stun blockers when pass rushing and doing swim/rip moves.
- Fix to problem where defender would freeze sometimes on pitch play
- Update to KOS/KRS to make subs from these use energy setting properly when filling in the special teams slots
- Update to out of bounds logic to make sure sideline has avoidance vector added when player doesn't want to go out of bounds
- Update to LB logic, to make them better follow the trajectory of the player being covered on rushing plays. Should keep them from drifting inside away from the play like they had been.

And none of those really have to do with passing. Bort has double checked through the code from those updates and can't seem to find anything either. Just one of those strange anomalies in coding I guess.

Also, those knocked loose passes should not be fumbles, the WR may not fumble enough but you don't compensate for it with a different messed up part of the sim. The WR doesn't take a step, the ball is knocked out immediately.

I know that it didn't happen before the 5/14th update, that's not my point. But to say that this was unintended is a bit unbelievable to me. I'll buy the int rate is too high and that is unintended, but I won't buy that the int after knocked loose is unintended.

By definition, a pass that is caught and knocked loose is a fumble. If the WR doesn't have possession then it's not a catch, if it's a catch, then he already has possession, and knocking it loose would be ruled a fumble.

I'm all for knocked loose passes. Never was against them. Even though they're a little high imo but yeah, the INT rate off of them is too damn high. In turn, it kills morale and it doesn't help that everyone knows blitzing is futile. So they rush 2-3 and drop the rest. The QB has very little chance of completing a pass.


I'm also for KL+INT as well but the rate should be really, really low.

I understand the frustration when this happens, but really is this worse than the fumbles on special teams we've had earlier?

This game is already favoring the offense, any time the defense gets something it gets nerfed. If we are going to fix this, shouldn't we fix the deflection -> catch sequence as well? How many time IRL do we see receivers catch a deflected pass?

Besides, are INTs out of control? I don't think they are at all. Most of the teams will end up with 20 some INTs for the season, which is just about right to me, take away 100+ INTs thrown by Spicewood, that number would be about 5 less per team.

Come on, let us play some defense. Stop nerfing the defense!!!!

Originally posted by chronoaug
bort doesn't know what caused this. doesn't that mean it's unintended? to be intended wouldn't he have to know what happened and did something specific to create more ints?

What I'm saying is that I don't believe everything Bort says

Come on, it's really not that hard to debug something like this. Most amateur programmer can do it. Just check the code after what happens when the ball is knocked loose....

It's a really easy fix too, just end the play as soon as the ball is knocked loose. How hard is that?