Warrior General Games

Originally posted by RobertRJS
Originally posted by zomgmike

if the VA you are referring to is ball hawk, it wont help you get open, it will only help you track down the ball better. The only way it will help you get open is if it is overthrown into open territory, ball hawk kicks in, and you hunt it down.

You wont have every year like you did last. It all comes down to luck. For a pure speed receiver with mediocre catching, sure hands is the way to go. All they need is 50 catching and they can pump it up for rerolls for the catch. But for a possession receiver, sure hands might not be the way to go, since they nearly never drop balls.


Well, I never said ball hawk. Underdog and Awe Inspiring could be the ones cuz of the vision penalty. Maybe YAC, though that one doesn't get you open. Still attributes.

I'm just not buying sure hands. You're right, I won't always have a year like last year. But if you tone down the # of targets, we're talking about less drops. I'm not worried about drops at all, tbh. Now, if it worked on PD rolls, then yes, sure hands would so be worth it.

Edit: but if you're a real pure speedster that does drop quite a bit, maybe it is the way to go. It definitely is useless in my build though.

In our first preseason game my WR had 1 drop--but 8 PDs against him! I want to do something about PDs. Will Sure Hands help with that? My gut tells me no.

Originally posted by RobertRJS
Originally posted by FarmerJosh

Originally posted by RobertRJS


Originally posted by hoyaboy1



Not confident that ball hawk will be that good on offense. If catching was getting upped, sure - but by the time the WR sees the ball I'm not sure a bonus to speed and agility will matter much.

If the throw is good, why would it matter? The ball will still arrive at the same time and the defender will have the same opportunity to make a play. On a bad throw I suppose it could help, but there aren't that many bad throws.

Sure Hands seems best.

Not really. Take my guy from last season.

114 catches, 7 drops. so 7 out of 121 'grabs' were drops or roughly 6%.

So with sure hands maxed, that gives me a 75% re-roll chance on those 6%. In other words, 94% caught, 1.5% dropped, 4.5% rolled again. Among that second roll 94% are caught, so the breakdown is like this:

98% caught, 2% dropped roughly speaking. Or, out of those 121 I'd end up catching 118-119 and dropping 2-3.

Are 15 VAs worth an extra 4-5 catches out of 120? One extra catch every 4 games? If my guy gets targeted a lot less and catches say 85, then we're looking at 2-3 catches.

15 VAs for an extra 3 catches? No thanks. I think I'd rather spend it on something else that will get me more open and catch more that way.

I recall Bort saying that many PDs are because of failed catch checks. For example if the defender deflects the pass, the receiver still has a chance to catch it, but if he fails it's a PD and doesn't show up in the stats. Also, if the receiver drops a pass the defender still has a chance to deflect it, which also counts as a PD and not a drop. So sure hands might be a lot more useful than people thought.

when i asked bort months ago he said it was only on rolls resulting in drops. Unless he changed the code or i misunderstood him, then i don't think it counts on PDs as I asked if PDs are re-rolled and he said 'no.' If it was on PD, then it would be worth it.
I remember this! It might be worth asking on the test blog thread if this was changed.

Originally posted by FBGProfessor
Originally posted by RobertRJS

Originally posted by zomgmike


if the VA you are referring to is ball hawk, it wont help you get open, it will only help you track down the ball better. The only way it will help you get open is if it is overthrown into open territory, ball hawk kicks in, and you hunt it down.

You wont have every year like you did last. It all comes down to luck. For a pure speed receiver with mediocre catching, sure hands is the way to go. All they need is 50 catching and they can pump it up for rerolls for the catch. But for a possession receiver, sure hands might not be the way to go, since they nearly never drop balls.


Well, I never said ball hawk. Underdog and Awe Inspiring could be the ones cuz of the vision penalty. Maybe YAC, though that one doesn't get you open. Still attributes.

I'm just not buying sure hands. You're right, I won't always have a year like last year. But if you tone down the # of targets, we're talking about less drops. I'm not worried about drops at all, tbh. Now, if it worked on PD rolls, then yes, sure hands would so be worth it.

Edit: but if you're a real pure speedster that does drop quite a bit, maybe it is the way to go. It definitely is useless in my build though.

In our first preseason game my WR had 1 drop--but 8 PDs against him! I want to do something about PDs. Will Sure Hands help with that? My gut tells me no.

my understanding is PDs won't help with that. But higher catching does and it's rumored (or known?) that stregnth does too. Carrying helps, this we know.

I too am wondering about Slippery. I started pumping it up last year and it seemed to help. Not sure if that's why my YAC went up so much, but it certainly didn't hurt.

Well, using Underdog, my production from last season seems down in the first 2 scrimmage games, and I've generally had less fame than those covering me. Will need to look again at all replays.

(God I wish it would flag replays I was involved in)

Originally posted by Chris LeDoux
Well, using Underdog, my production from last season seems down in the first 2 scrimmage games, and I've generally had less fame than those covering me. Will need to look again at all replays.

(God I wish it would flag replays I was involved in)

Install pbr Highlight

Originally posted by Chris LeDoux
Well, using Underdog, my production from last season seems down in the first 2 scrimmage games, and I've generally had less fame than those covering me. Will need to look again at all replays.

(God I wish it would flag replays I was involved in)

I'm seeing no results worth anything from underdog either.

I am thinking the AVA for catching, Soft Hands, I think, maybe better than Sure Hands--based on discussion above and if Sure Hands only works on Drops and not PDs. The catching AVA gives you .5 SP per VA--not great but better than the .3 ones.

Originally posted by FBGProfessor
I am thinking the AVA for catching, Soft Hands, I think, maybe better than Sure Hands--based on discussion above and if Sure Hands only works on Drops and not PDs. The catching AVA gives you .5 SP per VA--not great but better than the .3 ones.

That's the way I'm leaning too. Soft Hands and whatever the vision AVA is called look like the best choices for receivers now.

How good is the Ballhawk VA for wide receivers? Does anybody have it, and have you noticed a difference with it? I'm thinking that every cornerback will have it, so receivers almost have to take it not to be at a disadvantage. Thoughts?

It's only gonna help a WR on throws that are off target. It's a much better choice for a DB than a WR.

Originally posted by hiimjake
It's only gonna help a WR on throws that are off target. It's a much better choice for a DB than a WR.

the only time that i find ball hawk to be quite valuable is when you have already burned the CB, the QB overthrows you, and ball hawk kicks in to catch the pass. That could easily turn into huge TD passes

What do you guys think about Streaky? 15 VA into Streaky would give me 65\35 split. So 65% of the time I will get a 5% bonus to all attributes and 35% of the time I will get a -5% bonus. Does it sound worth it?

Originally posted by unbeleve
What do you guys think about Streaky? 15 VA into Streaky would give me 65\35 split. So 65% of the time I will get a 5% bonus to all attributes and 35% of the time I will get a -5% bonus. Does it sound worth it?

i think it's far more worth it to save 14 whole VAs and just make your chances 50/50. an additional 2% chance per VA is a complete waste IMO.

that being said, i like the idea of 1 pt in streaky for a WR and am considering doing it to mine ...

Originally posted by PsychoMan001
Originally posted by unbeleve

What do you guys think about Streaky? 15 VA into Streaky would give me 65\35 split. So 65% of the time I will get a 5% bonus to all attributes and 35% of the time I will get a -5% bonus. Does it sound worth it?

i think it's far more worth it to save 14 whole VAs and just make your chances 50/50. an additional 2% chance per VA is a complete waste IMO.

that being said, i like the idea of 1 pt in streaky for a WR and am considering doing it to mine ...

You're kidding right? You want a 50% chance to have all your attributes lowered by 5%? It would be better to have 0 points in streaky than 1 point.