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islander1
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Originally posted by Painmaker
Originally posted by Hukton Vioxx

Originally posted by Painmaker


Is it fair to say that any area where one team has an advantage over the Hammer is an "exploit?" As in, "the Carolina Hammer are really the best team out there and it's only deficiencies with the game engine that are keeping them back?"

Sorry man, but that's what it sounds like when you complain about every disadvantage. I'm sure you guys have some advantages as well to have gotten all the way to Pro, why not leverage those to their fullest while recognizing that other teams are going to leverage their own advantages? IMO it's not abusing the game to play to your strengths in order to beat your opponent... that's just competition. Crying in advance when you realize you're outmatched doesn't suddenly make your opponent a cheater, nor does it invalidate his subsequent victory. And no one is going to build or compete his team exactly according to your own vision of the "right" way to do it... playing competitors like that would be no different than playing solitaire anyway.


This is the same exploit that half of GLB is complaining about and that we stopped using once we realized it wasn't our rushing attack that was so good (its good, but not exceptional), but that it would work against any team that didn't badly outmatch us. I'm bored of watching the same game over and over.



Which exploit? Hazy having too many players? Or teams running the ball against your crappy run defense just like you ran it against DDL's crappy run defense? This isn't even a case of teams running just one play (Strong I HB Slam which is what many folks complain about), it's complaining about teams running a variety of plays involving a variety of backs (including QBs for crying out loud) and beating you consistently. One excuse might sound like a legitimate argument, but when you start coming in with excuses for every loss it sounds more and more like sour grapes. As to the "boring football" part, an awful lot of RL seasons (especially in college) have been completely dominated by rushing. Some folks still manage to find it entertaining.

I've got no real dog in this fight... I'm just letting you know what it sounds like to a relatively objective observer. I'm not talking about just this one thread, it's about the Hammer's history of complaining about losing. Begging people to not run against you once you realize you can't stop the run isn't exactly a noble way to compete. You won't see the Wolfpack "challenging" MEM to leave Csonka on the bench the next time we face them -- we'll try to find a way to stop him and if we can't, we'll acknowledge that they beat us fair and square (for reference: MEM already has a game in hand with their regular season victory, but until we wash out of the playoffs I'm reserving hope for redemption when it counts "for all the marbles!" Until then, those poo-flinging monkeys still have scoreboard).

Running is a huge part of football. Inability to stop the run has never been the hallmark of any successful team. Asking teams to please not run the ball isn't the way to become effective, either.


/thread
 
Tijuana Glove
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The Hammer allow fewer rushing yards per game than most teams in USA pro, including the Wolfpack
 
Hukton Vioxx
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Originally posted by thehazyone
Originally posted by Hukton Vioxx

Originally posted by thehazyone


Gamblers gave up 3.7 a carry. I can live with that - my main goal is to get the occasional tackle for loss or <2 yard gain and force a team into a passing situation or where 3-4 yards won't get them a first down. If you can do that just once or twice a drive, then you have a chance.


3.7 doesn't work when the team is set to go for it on fourth and short every time, and that at least a couple yards is all but guaranteed.


You're missing my logic. I'm fine giving up 3.7 a carry. I know that it'll lead to first downs. What I'm looking for is something along the lines of this:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=373244&pbp_id=15437128

By getting a stop here, we force a team into a passing situation. Yea, we'll give up some first downs here and there at 3.7 ypc but by doing this just once a drive, we put the team in a position to force a FG or punt. That's what I'm talking about.

Kind of like you guys did here:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=373244&pbp_id=15433885
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=373244&pbp_id=15435948
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=373244&pbp_id=15439010

Which led to this on the next play:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=373244&pbp_id=15434122
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=373244&pbp_id=15436043
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=373244&pbp_id=15439069


Not to brag, but a lesser run defense would not have pulled those off as regularly. See DDL. It used to happen (last season) on a fairly regular basis, but this season, anything 3.4 or worse against a team employing the exploit logic means a 2:1 deficit in time of possession if you don't do the same thing. Which leads us all to a dilemma where even if you don't want to be an exploiter you are forced to, which is why I am proposing making agreements on certain inputs to make the playoffs not suck.

And past your 40 or so you did go for it on fourth and short...don't blame you...that part of our gameplan was the same I'm guessing.
Last edited Mar 26, 2009 13:36:58
 
Hukton Vioxx
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Originally posted by Tijuana Glove
The Hammer allow fewer rushing yards per game than most teams in USA pro, including the Wolfpack


They would prefer to argue over something other than the actual situation. Didn't I warn someone about what would happen if this continued on for a few pages?
 
kr0n
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Originally posted by Tijuana Glove
The Hammer allow fewer rushing yards per game than most teams in USA pro, including the Wolfpack


then you should have no problems when teams do rush, considering you're the best at stopping the run...or so you say
 
thehazyone
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Sweet! We got 200+ yards rushing on the best run defense EVAH!

 
Sik Wit It
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Originally posted by Hukton Vioxx
Originally posted by Tijuana Glove

The Hammer allow fewer rushing yards per game than most teams in USA pro, including the Wolfpack


They would prefer to argue over something other than the actual situation. Didn't I warn someone about what would happen if this continued on for a few pages?


That'll happen when you hold a gutted team to -5 yards, and don't play MEM.
 
kr0n
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oh and considering you got a -5 yards from the gutcats and don't play any of the top 2 rushing teams in the USAPL, your stats are a little skewed
 
Hukton Vioxx
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Originally posted by kr0n
Originally posted by Tijuana Glove

The Hammer allow fewer rushing yards per game than most teams in USA pro, including the Wolfpack


then you should have no problems when teams do rush, considering you're the best at stopping the run...or so you say


That is the point...we are stopping the run better than all but 3 other teams in USA Pro, yet we cannot stop this gameplan, that doesn't even require any special knowledge, or builds...or even really a good idea of how the game works. That means things are out of balance, and as more teams have become aware of that, it has become a game-wide exploit which is making people talk about quitting because the whole enterprise is a waste of time to them.
 
kr0n
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Originally posted by kr0n
oh and considering you got a -5 yards from the gutcats and don't play any of the top 2 rushing teams in the USAPL, your stats are a little skewed


 
Hukton Vioxx
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Originally posted by kr0n
oh and considering you got a -5 yards from the gutcats and don't play any of the top 2 rushing teams in the USAPL, your stats are a little skewed


They ran the ball effectively on other teams?

And we never claimed to be the best at stopping the run...just one of them.
Last edited Mar 26, 2009 13:43:48
 
Sik Wit It
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Well you're comparing you to us...and we don't play gutted teams.

If you do the math without that game factored in, you give up a little over 102 yds/game instead of 95. Making our rush D better .
 
kr0n
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Originally posted by Hukton Vioxx
Originally posted by kr0n

oh and considering you got a -5 yards from the gutcats and don't play any of the top 2 rushing teams in the USAPL, your stats are a little skewed


They ran the ball effectively on other teams?


you said the wolfpack, the wolfpack did not have the luxury of facing the madcats, neither did any team in the west aside from the freebirds

it also skews the running stats for the east teams

EDIT: my mistake, tijuana glove mentioned the wolfpack
Last edited Mar 26, 2009 13:44:12
 
Painmaker
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Originally posted by Tijuana Glove
The Hammer allow fewer rushing yards per game than most teams in USA pro, including the Wolfpack


Prevent defense does tend to give up a lot of yards rushing... it's the curse of being so far ahead all the time.

The Wolfpack defense allows fewer opponent victories than most teams in USA Pro, including the Hammer. Make your own conclusions.
 
Hukton Vioxx
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Originally posted by Painmaker
Originally posted by Tijuana Glove

The Hammer allow fewer rushing yards per game than most teams in USA pro, including the Wolfpack


Prevent defense does tend to give up a lot of yards rushing... it's the curse of being so far ahead all the time.

The Wolfpack defense allows fewer opponent victories than most teams in USA Pro, including the Hammer. Make your own conclusions.


So, one team in USA Pro can stop this exploit without using it themselves? You aren't exactly disproving my point...
 
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