Warrior General Games

Anyone else think strength is better still? (I do)

i was forced to up my vision (Due to this seasons changes), but i am going to leave it at 61 and keep going into strength.

Also throwing on bullet seems to work now. You get a couple balls batted down at LOS but its not that bad

Originally posted by kingofgod
Anyone else think strength is better still? (I do)

i was forced to up my vision (Due to this seasons changes), but i am going to leave it at 61 and keep going into strength.

Also throwing on bullet seems to work now. You get a couple balls batted down at LOS but its not that bad

It ENTIRELY depends on the style of offense.

I like Vision for a quick-hitting West Coast offense and Strength for a Run and Gun offense.

Too much strength too early is a negative, though, because WRs can't hold onto the ball.

Originally posted by Viscount
Without high vision though, your QB does make some questionable decisions particularly on the HB Fly play.

On these 2 plays, despite the HB being the designated primary target and uncovered, your QB tries to force the pass to the TE, resulting in INTs:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296129&pbp_id=7727543
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296124&pbp_id=3890076

Here he actually decides to throw to the HB who's covered this timeand throws an INT, missing the open WR underneath:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296130&pbp_id=8474848

That same thing was happening with my team's QB w/over 90 vision.

Originally posted by Sharrow
Originally posted by Viscount

Without high vision though, your QB does make some questionable decisions particularly on the HB Fly play.

On these 2 plays, despite the HB being the designated primary target and uncovered, your QB tries to force the pass to the TE, resulting in INTs:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296129&pbp_id=7727543
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296124&pbp_id=3890076

Here he actually decides to throw to the HB who's covered this timeand throws an INT, missing the open WR underneath:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296130&pbp_id=8474848

That same thing was happening with my team's QB w/over 90 vision.

Sadly, I see this sort of thing as well with decent vision (above 75)...though I suppose it might happen MORE with low (sub 60) vision?

Originally posted by Sharrow
Originally posted by Viscount

Without high vision though, your QB does make some questionable decisions particularly on the HB Fly play.

On these 2 plays, despite the HB being the designated primary target and uncovered, your QB tries to force the pass to the TE, resulting in INTs:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296129&pbp_id=7727543
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296124&pbp_id=3890076

Here he actually decides to throw to the HB who's covered this timeand throws an INT, missing the open WR underneath:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296130&pbp_id=8474848

That same thing was happening with my team's QB w/over 90 vision.

Ya, check-downs seem messed up this season for some reason. I've also seen a lot of drops by HBs with good catching (30-40) in the last few games...

Originally posted by Viscount
Without high vision though, your QB does make some questionable decisions particularly on the HB Fly play.

On these 2 plays, despite the HB being the designated primary target and uncovered, your QB tries to force the pass to the TE, resulting in INTs:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296129&pbp_id=7727543
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296124&pbp_id=3890076

Here he actually decides to throw to the HB who's covered this timeand throws an INT, missing the open WR underneath:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=296130&pbp_id=8474848

Regarding the first two plays. When the QB first cocks the ball back the HB is more covered than the TE. Either you don't have Quick Release or it just wasn't activated on those plays, but by the time you release the ball the HB is being ignored by the backers while they are centering around the TE.

As soon as the QB pulls his arm back the defense knows where the ball is going. Just because the HB was open once the ball was released it doesn't mean he was open when the QB decided to throw. In otherwords, they weren't "questionable" decisions. Your QB threw to the less covered receiver when he decided to throw, however by the time he released the ball it ended up being the more covered receiver.

Also, had Quick Release been activated on both those plays, I'd bet at least one of them wouldn't have been an INT.

Remember, at the end of last season Bort changed a bunch of coverage stuff:
Originally posted by Bort
- Fix to aggressive coverage defender ball intercept point calculation, to head for the receiver instead of the ball intercept point if the calculated ball intercept point is too far behind the receiver

Jan 19, 2009
Fix to random occasional bug where defender's max speed was limited to the speed of the player he was covering after the ball is caught by someone else
- A couple fixes to address some occasional math errors on (mostly) long distance player intercept point calculations

Jan 18, 2009
- Fix to make players playing man to man coverage not dash forward too far at the start of the play
- Fix to include missing upper y axis boundary allowed on catches, missed in Jan 13 update

Jan 13, 2009
- Fix to require players to be a little bit more in bounds to try for an int/catch, instead of being able to catch it .0001 feet inbounds from the sideline.

Much of the stuff you think is attributed to your QB build is really a change to the parameters in coverage.

Personally, I like it. Although my QB is hurting more, the games are closer and more realistic.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=374263&pbp_id=7089484

At the time of the pass, all three WR are about evenly open, WR1 has the FS closing in on him, WR2 has the SS closing in on him, and WR3 is looking at a 45 yard TD. What good is 90+ vision if he doesn't throw it to the right guy?

Originally posted by Sharrow
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=374263&pbp_id=7089484

At the time of the pass, all three WR are about evenly open, WR1 has the FS closing in on him, WR2 has the SS closing in on him, and WR3 is looking at a 45 yard TD. What good is 90+ vision if he doesn't throw it to the right guy?

Doesn't matter who is where at the time of the pass. A QB decides to throw when he pulls his arm back, not when he releases the ball. If you pause it and go frame by frame the moment your qb first starts to cock the ball back both outside receivers have nearly equal coverage on them, except WR3 has a CB slightly closer. Thus you threw to WR1.

Originally posted by kingofgod
right now i would say strength, but who knows after the changes to vision next season. We dont know how much vision will be needed to lead WR's good.

I really dont like this change, it should have gone off the the throwing stat some too. Not just vision. being able to lead WR in real life you need to be able to throw good. You need some vision but not that much.

Vision is your sight and instinct so its more important than just good throwing. If you can throw the ball but you cant sense where WR is going then you are more likely to throw picks to CBs.

Originally posted by mgbl3
Originally posted by Sharrow

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=374263&pbp_id=7089484

At the time of the pass, all three WR are about evenly open, WR1 has the FS closing in on him, WR2 has the SS closing in on him, and WR3 is looking at a 45 yard TD. What good is 90+ vision if he doesn't throw it to the right guy?

Doesn't matter who is where at the time of the pass. A QB decides to throw when he pulls his arm back, not when he releases the ball. If you pause it and go frame by frame the moment your qb first starts to cock the ball back both outside receivers have nearly equal coverage on them, except WR3 has a CB slightly closer. Thus you threw to WR1.



That's not what I'm seeing. When I see him start to cock it back, the field is exactly how I described it. I don't know what you're seeing, there isn't a CB anywhere near WR3.

Originally posted by Jowen
Originally posted by kingofgod

right now i would say strength, but who knows after the changes to vision next season. We dont know how much vision will be needed to lead WR's good.

I really dont like this change, it should have gone off the the throwing stat some too. Not just vision. being able to lead WR in real life you need to be able to throw good. You need some vision but not that much.

Vision is your sight and instinct so its more important than just good throwing. If you can throw the ball but you cant sense where WR is going then you are more likely to throw picks to CBs.

I don't think vision has much to do with anything other than seeing the targets, and picking up blitzes, tbh. And based on what Bort said about QB targetting, it looks to me like it doesn't even take into consideration where the receiver is going to be by the time the ball gets to him, which makes vision a lot less valuable.

Originally posted by Sharrow
Originally posted by mgbl3

Originally posted by Sharrow


http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=374263&pbp_id=7089484

At the time of the pass, all three WR are about evenly open, WR1 has the FS closing in on him, WR2 has the SS closing in on him, and WR3 is looking at a 45 yard TD. What good is 90+ vision if he doesn't throw it to the right guy?

Doesn't matter who is where at the time of the pass. A QB decides to throw when he pulls his arm back, not when he releases the ball. If you pause it and go frame by frame the moment your qb first starts to cock the ball back both outside receivers have nearly equal coverage on them, except WR3 has a CB slightly closer. Thus you threw to WR1.



That's not what I'm seeing. When I see him start to cock it back, the field is exactly how I described it. I don't know what you're seeing, there isn't a CB anywhere near WR3.

the ROLB jumped back when wr3 made his cut, if that was the QB's first read, the WR was covered, he then looked for another target

The TE is his first read in that play. That's not the point. I know why what happened happened. The point is that vision isn't as important as it should be. Even with very high vision, the QB doesn't go to the wide open receiver when he's got a very good chance to score a clean and easy touchdown because the targeting system doesn't even consider that as a priority. It just doesn't consider how the table is going to be set by the time the ball gets there; it apparently only considers where the defenders are at the time of the pass, not in which direction they're moving.

If the receiver is running straight into a defender or two, it doesn't matter how high the QB's vision is, he's going to throw it anyway as long as the WR has enough distance from those players at the time of the pass. Even if that distance is closed twice as fast because both receiver and defender are already moving towards each other when the ball is thrown.

In the play I posted, the WR3 clearly had the ROLB beat just as the WR1 and WR2 had their respective CB beat, the difference is the safety movement. The QB should have seen that movement and acted accordingly. That is why real QB's look safeties away from their targets, to get them moving in the wrong direction. In this instance he didn't have to look them away because they were giving him a TD to the WR3 on a silver platter. With very high vision, it shouldn't matter how far down the receiver is in the checklist, if he is that wide open, the QB should be able to see that opportunity. Unfortunately, like so many other things, this just doesn't work right in the game yet and vision for quarterbacks isn't as important as it should be.

Get the player trails script. You'll see the ROLB break back on the TE, and then cut shallower than the TE route and start moving across the field to the WR. I'm assuming this is the ROLB reading the QB as having moved on from his read.

Now, I don't know how a QB goes through his reads (1, 2, 3, dump or 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, dump or 1, 2, 3, 2, dump or 1, 2, 3, 1, 3, 3, 2, dump) but it could be that the QB only goes through his checks once with low vision or the second pass is random (I'm not sure of the QBs vision in this case). But clearly the QB did not go back to the TE in this case. It was a shorter, safer choice and he missed it.