My lv 44 DE just got owned by a lv37 +lv39 OT. I am getting tired of watching my Dots do nothing!
Snaza
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Originally posted by Signalsgt
Has Bort acknowledged this to be a problem in any thread anywhere?
I think Bort's been on vacation the last couple of weeks tbh...
Comes on rarely, doesn't stay on much... posts very little.
Sounds like a laptop in Jamaica!
Has Bort acknowledged this to be a problem in any thread anywhere?
I think Bort's been on vacation the last couple of weeks tbh...
Comes on rarely, doesn't stay on much... posts very little.
Sounds like a laptop in Jamaica!
tedtinker
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A DE with decent strength/agility should be able to have success against even leveled OTs, but putting a stop to the DEs (or CBs) dominating the line was needed. Although, something needs to happen with the new situation. I think the best built DEs should be sacking the qb around 10 to 20 times/season when playing against decent level competition. Here's some ideas to even this situation out.
I wouldn't mind the pancake, and time taken to get up from a pancake increase when OTs meet all speed/agility with no strength DEs. I would also have DEs with strength in the 60's and 70's along with high speed/agility stand a better chance of bouncing off blocks, or using swim/spin moves to round the OT because the OT was not able to lay on a solid block. In reality, DEs with strength below 60, going against an over 6 ft 300 lb tackle with strength 80+ would have a hard time getting around the OT or not making contact with them. I think a need to work the equation to include first contact b/t the ot and de when taking in to consideration both players strength/blocking/agility/speed/vision ratios.
For example: This is just what I would expect to happen.
A OT with 85 strength, 85 blocking, and 60 agility meets a 70 strength, 50 speed, 90 agility DE. I would expect that if the OT gets a decent block on the DE, he would go down, or at least be held up enough to not make an impact on pass rushing. Although, I would also expect the DE to break away sometimes because the OT was unable to get a decent block on the quicker DE.
I wouldn't mind the pancake, and time taken to get up from a pancake increase when OTs meet all speed/agility with no strength DEs. I would also have DEs with strength in the 60's and 70's along with high speed/agility stand a better chance of bouncing off blocks, or using swim/spin moves to round the OT because the OT was not able to lay on a solid block. In reality, DEs with strength below 60, going against an over 6 ft 300 lb tackle with strength 80+ would have a hard time getting around the OT or not making contact with them. I think a need to work the equation to include first contact b/t the ot and de when taking in to consideration both players strength/blocking/agility/speed/vision ratios.
For example: This is just what I would expect to happen.
A OT with 85 strength, 85 blocking, and 60 agility meets a 70 strength, 50 speed, 90 agility DE. I would expect that if the OT gets a decent block on the DE, he would go down, or at least be held up enough to not make an impact on pass rushing. Although, I would also expect the DE to break away sometimes because the OT was unable to get a decent block on the quicker DE.
Signalsgt
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Originally posted by tedtinker
A DE with decent strength/agility should be able to have success against even leveled OTs, but putting a stop to the DEs (or CBs) dominating the line was needed. Although, something needs to happen with the new situation. I think the best built DEs should be sacking the qb around 10 to 20 times/season when playing against decent level competition. Here's some ideas to even this situation out.
I wouldn't mind the pancake, and time taken to get up from a pancake increase when OTs meet all speed/agility with no strength DEs. I would also have DEs with strength in the 60's and 70's along with high speed/agility stand a better chance of bouncing off blocks, or using swim/spin moves to round the OT because the OT was not able to lay on a solid block. In reality, DEs with strength below 60, going against an over 6 ft 300 lb tackle with strength 80+ would have a hard time getting around the OT or not making contact with them. I think a need to work the equation to include first contact b/t the ot and de when taking in to consideration both players strength/blocking/agility/speed/vision ratios.
For example: This is just what I would expect to happen.
A OT with 85 strength, 85 blocking, and 60 agility meets a 70 strength, 50 speed, 90 agility DE. I would expect that if the OT gets a decent block on the DE, he would go down, or at least be held up enough to not make an impact on pass rushing. Although, I would also expect the DE to break away sometimes because the OT was unable to get a decent block on the quicker DE.
Maybe a tweak to the radius the OT has for engagement. We just played a CPU team today and my DE was able to get around the OT without any problem (had 17 levels on him) but once he did that if the level 17 CPU FB stayed in to block he'd get stopped everytime. The balance has swung to the OL this season, hopefully next season balance will be restored.
A DE with decent strength/agility should be able to have success against even leveled OTs, but putting a stop to the DEs (or CBs) dominating the line was needed. Although, something needs to happen with the new situation. I think the best built DEs should be sacking the qb around 10 to 20 times/season when playing against decent level competition. Here's some ideas to even this situation out.
I wouldn't mind the pancake, and time taken to get up from a pancake increase when OTs meet all speed/agility with no strength DEs. I would also have DEs with strength in the 60's and 70's along with high speed/agility stand a better chance of bouncing off blocks, or using swim/spin moves to round the OT because the OT was not able to lay on a solid block. In reality, DEs with strength below 60, going against an over 6 ft 300 lb tackle with strength 80+ would have a hard time getting around the OT or not making contact with them. I think a need to work the equation to include first contact b/t the ot and de when taking in to consideration both players strength/blocking/agility/speed/vision ratios.
For example: This is just what I would expect to happen.
A OT with 85 strength, 85 blocking, and 60 agility meets a 70 strength, 50 speed, 90 agility DE. I would expect that if the OT gets a decent block on the DE, he would go down, or at least be held up enough to not make an impact on pass rushing. Although, I would also expect the DE to break away sometimes because the OT was unable to get a decent block on the quicker DE.
Maybe a tweak to the radius the OT has for engagement. We just played a CPU team today and my DE was able to get around the OT without any problem (had 17 levels on him) but once he did that if the level 17 CPU FB stayed in to block he'd get stopped everytime. The balance has swung to the OL this season, hopefully next season balance will be restored.
tedtinker
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Originally posted by Signalsgt
Originally posted by tedtinker
A DE with decent strength/agility should be able to have success against even leveled OTs, but putting a stop to the DEs (or CBs) dominating the line was needed. Although, something needs to happen with the new situation. I think the best built DEs should be sacking the qb around 10 to 20 times/season when playing against decent level competition. Here's some ideas to even this situation out.
I wouldn't mind the pancake, and time taken to get up from a pancake increase when OTs meet all speed/agility with no strength DEs. I would also have DEs with strength in the 60's and 70's along with high speed/agility stand a better chance of bouncing off blocks, or using swim/spin moves to round the OT because the OT was not able to lay on a solid block. In reality, DEs with strength below 60, going against an over 6 ft 300 lb tackle with strength 80+ would have a hard time getting around the OT or not making contact with them. I think a need to work the equation to include first contact b/t the ot and de when taking in to consideration both players strength/blocking/agility/speed/vision ratios.
For example: This is just what I would expect to happen.
A OT with 85 strength, 85 blocking, and 60 agility meets a 70 strength, 50 speed, 90 agility DE. I would expect that if the OT gets a decent block on the DE, he would go down, or at least be held up enough to not make an impact on pass rushing. Although, I would also expect the DE to break away sometimes because the OT was unable to get a decent block on the quicker DE.
Maybe a tweak to the radius the OT has for engagement. We just played a CPU team today and my DE was able to get around the OT without any problem (had 17 levels on him) but once he did that if the level 17 CPU FB stayed in to block he'd get stopped everytime. The balance has swung to the OL this season, hopefully next season balance will be restored.
Well, I definitely like your radius hypothesis. I really think the size of the OT must be taken into effect. Although, I really don't think there was ever a balance.
So what we have gotten so far:
1) OT size or radius (the OTs size should make a difference in how much contact they make with the DE)
2) first contact (players will make contact, and if the DE's strength is not up to par, they will be sat on their asses.)
3) Pancake time (players seated on their ass should stay there more than a second. I think there is a VA that allows you to get up faster.)
4) even match ups produce low highlights (an equal OT and DE playing against one another will not produce major stats. They will cancel one another out, and possibly one or the other will get a lucky role and break free for a sack, TFL, or pancake.
5) Well built DEs/OTs should be able to dominate lower level competition.
Originally posted by tedtinker
A DE with decent strength/agility should be able to have success against even leveled OTs, but putting a stop to the DEs (or CBs) dominating the line was needed. Although, something needs to happen with the new situation. I think the best built DEs should be sacking the qb around 10 to 20 times/season when playing against decent level competition. Here's some ideas to even this situation out.
I wouldn't mind the pancake, and time taken to get up from a pancake increase when OTs meet all speed/agility with no strength DEs. I would also have DEs with strength in the 60's and 70's along with high speed/agility stand a better chance of bouncing off blocks, or using swim/spin moves to round the OT because the OT was not able to lay on a solid block. In reality, DEs with strength below 60, going against an over 6 ft 300 lb tackle with strength 80+ would have a hard time getting around the OT or not making contact with them. I think a need to work the equation to include first contact b/t the ot and de when taking in to consideration both players strength/blocking/agility/speed/vision ratios.
For example: This is just what I would expect to happen.
A OT with 85 strength, 85 blocking, and 60 agility meets a 70 strength, 50 speed, 90 agility DE. I would expect that if the OT gets a decent block on the DE, he would go down, or at least be held up enough to not make an impact on pass rushing. Although, I would also expect the DE to break away sometimes because the OT was unable to get a decent block on the quicker DE.
Maybe a tweak to the radius the OT has for engagement. We just played a CPU team today and my DE was able to get around the OT without any problem (had 17 levels on him) but once he did that if the level 17 CPU FB stayed in to block he'd get stopped everytime. The balance has swung to the OL this season, hopefully next season balance will be restored.
Well, I definitely like your radius hypothesis. I really think the size of the OT must be taken into effect. Although, I really don't think there was ever a balance.
So what we have gotten so far:
1) OT size or radius (the OTs size should make a difference in how much contact they make with the DE)
2) first contact (players will make contact, and if the DE's strength is not up to par, they will be sat on their asses.)
3) Pancake time (players seated on their ass should stay there more than a second. I think there is a VA that allows you to get up faster.)
4) even match ups produce low highlights (an equal OT and DE playing against one another will not produce major stats. They will cancel one another out, and possibly one or the other will get a lucky role and break free for a sack, TFL, or pancake.
5) Well built DEs/OTs should be able to dominate lower level competition.
pelland
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Originally posted by pelland
Originally posted by pelland
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=229121
Here is your STR/strongbase build experiment. I landed a good piece of AE today and shifted custom equip around. My Vet abilities are not great as I was going in a different direction early in the season. Will track stats from game 8 and on. (1st 7 games were horrible anyway)
Game 8 statline bigfat ZERO. 85 STR + 8 Strong Base playing on bullrush and I cannot find one example where my DE pushed back the LOT on a rush play or collapsed the pocket on a pass play.
Game 9 statline another Zero: watch what STR and Strongbase does for me on these run plays at RDE
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8032566
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8032669
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8035282
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8035809
Originally posted by pelland
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=229121
Here is your STR/strongbase build experiment. I landed a good piece of AE today and shifted custom equip around. My Vet abilities are not great as I was going in a different direction early in the season. Will track stats from game 8 and on. (1st 7 games were horrible anyway)
Game 8 statline bigfat ZERO. 85 STR + 8 Strong Base playing on bullrush and I cannot find one example where my DE pushed back the LOT on a rush play or collapsed the pocket on a pass play.
Game 9 statline another Zero: watch what STR and Strongbase does for me on these run plays at RDE
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8032566
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8032669
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8035282
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8035809
Last edited Jan 19, 2009 17:53:57
tedtinker
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Absolutely nothing. Something needs to be done. Let's come up with something realistic to submit to bort.
BiggerBlue
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My proposal for Bort:
1) Do a serious survey on what sacks are "out of line" in seasons 5 and 6. If most of the sacks are against gutted teams and gutted OTs then the DEs are just as "realistic" as the QB's that puts up 500 yards against gutted defense, HBs that puts up 300 yards against gutted DL.
2) Come up with a solid ratio of OT vs. DE. An algorithm that puts DE's agility/speed up against the OT's strength/blocking. Add secondary influences like DE's strength/vision vs. OT's agility/vision.
3) Make DE get tired easily (this is the case of NFL as well), and that way it will force players here to spend SP or more training on stamina. Double the requirements for DE to up their stamina if they want to be effective all game long. Otherwise by quarters 2 and 4 the DEs will be so tire they will be useless.
4) Simply realize that in "realism/NFL" fast/agile DEs will dominate an OT on any day. Have new OL capabilities to double-team the DE, have OT/HB double team, or OT/TE double team options.
ChicagoTRS
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I hate the philosophy of artificial stats limitations put on positions especially how the game is currently constructed. If the player levels were a bit closer in all of the leagues then I could see the top DEs getting 25 sacks or less. But...if a level 40+ DE is facing a level 28 OT the DE should dominate the OT for multiple sacks. And...DEs should have at least a chance of a sack when facing equal level OTs...right now if an OT is at least ok they will pretty much shut down all DEs cold. Even average DEs should get a sack every other game or so...in this seasons sim an average or below DE will be lucky to see one legit sack in an entire season.
The sim is just crap right now IMO. When teams of equal leveled competition play each other they are putting up scores like 56 - 44...a competitive game should not have an over/under of 100. Teams are either pounding power backs or putting up 70+ passes a game. Not sure how this fits in with the realism theme?
If anything defenses should be a bit overpowered because offenses have more of the ability to specialize builds where defenses need to cover all extremes the offenses throw at them.
IMO the simple fix is allow DEs and DTs to shed blocks more often. Right now once a DE locks up with an OT the play is over for the DE. In real football DEs are not stood up/held by the OT every play.
The sim is just crap right now IMO. When teams of equal leveled competition play each other they are putting up scores like 56 - 44...a competitive game should not have an over/under of 100. Teams are either pounding power backs or putting up 70+ passes a game. Not sure how this fits in with the realism theme?
If anything defenses should be a bit overpowered because offenses have more of the ability to specialize builds where defenses need to cover all extremes the offenses throw at them.
IMO the simple fix is allow DEs and DTs to shed blocks more often. Right now once a DE locks up with an OT the play is over for the DE. In real football DEs are not stood up/held by the OT every play.
BiggerBlue
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Good post Chicago. I don't see how a genius like Bort cannot see this argument. Obviously Bort relented to majority pressure.
All I ask is they post their real reasons to nerf the DE and not hide behind this "realism" BS. You want GLB to turn into Arena Football. You want GLB to allow offenses to score at least 50 points game in and game out. You want GLB to allow QB-WR to play catch all game long, or watch your HB run all over the field. Fine. But don't throw us this "realism" BS
People invest just as much money to build a good solid DE and if all we're going to get is nerf crap then don't be surprise when people take their money elsewhere.
division26
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Originally posted by pelland
Originally posted by pelland
Originally posted by pelland
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=229121
Here is your STR/strongbase build experiment. I landed a good piece of AE today and shifted custom equip around. My Vet abilities are not great as I was going in a different direction early in the season. Will track stats from game 8 and on. (1st 7 games were horrible anyway)
Game 8 statline bigfat ZERO. 85 STR + 8 Strong Base playing on bullrush and I cannot find one example where my DE pushed back the LOT on a rush play or collapsed the pocket on a pass play.
Game 9 statline another Zero: watch what STR and Strongbase does for me on these run plays at RDE
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8032566
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8032669
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8035282
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8035809
at least you're getting owned by an LT that is above you in level... most of us are going from conference leading sacks to shutouts by LTs 10 levels below us... i'ts crazy!!!
Originally posted by pelland
Originally posted by pelland
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=229121
Here is your STR/strongbase build experiment. I landed a good piece of AE today and shifted custom equip around. My Vet abilities are not great as I was going in a different direction early in the season. Will track stats from game 8 and on. (1st 7 games were horrible anyway)
Game 8 statline bigfat ZERO. 85 STR + 8 Strong Base playing on bullrush and I cannot find one example where my DE pushed back the LOT on a rush play or collapsed the pocket on a pass play.
Game 9 statline another Zero: watch what STR and Strongbase does for me on these run plays at RDE
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8032566
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8032669
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8035282
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=292873&pbp_id=8035809
at least you're getting owned by an LT that is above you in level... most of us are going from conference leading sacks to shutouts by LTs 10 levels below us... i'ts crazy!!!
Shelby Delby
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My last two games:
95 plays - 0 stats
84 plays - 0 stats.
and my DE is no creampuff...trust me.
95 plays - 0 stats
84 plays - 0 stats.
and my DE is no creampuff...trust me.
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