Ifyou want to get at least something of the run support a CB does as opposed to their tackles in the pass game, check their TFL stats. I can't think of any time a WR caught a pass for a loss.
Capaneus
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Originally posted by drazz00
Ifyou want to get at least something of the run support a CB does as opposed to their tackles in the pass game, check their TFL stats. I can't think of any time a WR caught a pass for a loss.
Good thought. Currently a TFL is worth 1.5 pts for both D-line and DBack players. I don't see anything wrong with bumping that up to 2 pts for DBacks to reward run stuffing CBs. I don't think that's going to be a dramatic change though. This is exactly the sort of discussion that helps improve the formulas. I'm pleased to note that thanks to our critiques, justafish has bumped Ints up to 4 pts for DBacks.
Ifyou want to get at least something of the run support a CB does as opposed to their tackles in the pass game, check their TFL stats. I can't think of any time a WR caught a pass for a loss.
Good thought. Currently a TFL is worth 1.5 pts for both D-line and DBack players. I don't see anything wrong with bumping that up to 2 pts for DBacks to reward run stuffing CBs. I don't think that's going to be a dramatic change though. This is exactly the sort of discussion that helps improve the formulas. I'm pleased to note that thanks to our critiques, justafish has bumped Ints up to 4 pts for DBacks.
coach
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Originally posted by Capaneus
Originally posted by coach
For tackles, I agree that sometimes they are a positive for CBs. And sometimes they're a negative. So that sounds like a neutral stat to me.
As far as the missing someone question... I'm biased but I think my guy (Curly Merkin) is pretty good. Depending on how much FRs are worth, he may be a contender. I just think Max Flight is better, which is why I suggested him instead.
Well, as I said, the ideal solution would be to give points for "good" tackles, and deduct them for "bad" ones. If a stat is truly neutral, it tells you nothing- which makes it pretty much useless. Right now I think all players deserve some points for stopping the guy with the ball, but hopefully we can make that metric more sophisticated. I also think CBs and Safties should be penalized more for missed Tks, but I'm not sure how much more.
Hah, I was waiting for you to mention Merkin
But, yeah he's definitely a contender for CB4. To compare with the earlier numbers:
5 pt Ints: 84
No pts for Tk: 75.5
So it's definitely a horse race between Dawson, Flight and Merkin. Hopefully, they'll spread out by the end of the season, so I can have a bit more confidence in my pick. For now, I'll give the edge to Dawson cause he has the least plays.
Merkin trying to help his cause today...
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=139534&pbp_id=8766085
Another weird thing about CB stats is that you can get a PD on a completed pass. Merkin had a PD and a tackle on the same play today, which is kinda cheap stat padding.
Originally posted by coach
For tackles, I agree that sometimes they are a positive for CBs. And sometimes they're a negative. So that sounds like a neutral stat to me.
As far as the missing someone question... I'm biased but I think my guy (Curly Merkin) is pretty good. Depending on how much FRs are worth, he may be a contender. I just think Max Flight is better, which is why I suggested him instead.
Well, as I said, the ideal solution would be to give points for "good" tackles, and deduct them for "bad" ones. If a stat is truly neutral, it tells you nothing- which makes it pretty much useless. Right now I think all players deserve some points for stopping the guy with the ball, but hopefully we can make that metric more sophisticated. I also think CBs and Safties should be penalized more for missed Tks, but I'm not sure how much more.
Hah, I was waiting for you to mention Merkin
But, yeah he's definitely a contender for CB4. To compare with the earlier numbers:5 pt Ints: 84
No pts for Tk: 75.5
So it's definitely a horse race between Dawson, Flight and Merkin. Hopefully, they'll spread out by the end of the season, so I can have a bit more confidence in my pick. For now, I'll give the edge to Dawson cause he has the least plays.
Merkin trying to help his cause today...
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=139534&pbp_id=8766085
Another weird thing about CB stats is that you can get a PD on a completed pass. Merkin had a PD and a tackle on the same play today, which is kinda cheap stat padding.
Last edited Oct 18, 2008 12:15:50
Capaneus
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Originally posted by coach
Merkin trying to help his cause today...
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=139534&pbp_id=8766085
Another weird thing about CB stats is that you can get a PD on a completed pass. Merkin had a PD and a tackle on the same play today, which is kinda cheap stat padding.
Ooh, that makes things closer. Score after wk 14 with 5 pt Ints is Merkin 97, Dawson 94. It is a real poser to compare you two because Dawson has 200 fewer plays.
Merkin trying to help his cause today...
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=139534&pbp_id=8766085
Another weird thing about CB stats is that you can get a PD on a completed pass. Merkin had a PD and a tackle on the same play today, which is kinda cheap stat padding.
Ooh, that makes things closer. Score after wk 14 with 5 pt Ints is Merkin 97, Dawson 94. It is a real poser to compare you two because Dawson has 200 fewer plays.
Last edited Oct 18, 2008 12:32:33
justafish2002
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I've been monitoring this conversation with help from Capaneus and many changes in the formula have resulted from that. Thanks to all of you as we continue to tweak the formulas.
Capaneus
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Originally posted by justafish2002
I've been monitoring this conversation with help from Capaneus and many changes in the formula have resulted from that. Thanks to all of you as we continue to tweak the formulas.
Much thanks to you for coming up with it in the first place. I just hope Bort picks up on it in the next few seasons.
I've been monitoring this conversation with help from Capaneus and many changes in the formula have resulted from that. Thanks to all of you as we continue to tweak the formulas.
Much thanks to you for coming up with it in the first place. I just hope Bort picks up on it in the next few seasons.
Last edited Oct 18, 2008 12:41:44
flames54
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Did you miss Jenkins of the Aces for DT? dude has 87 tackles, 13tfl, 21 sacks and 8 FF.
Capaneus
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Originally posted by flames54
Did you miss Jenkins of the Aces for DT? dude has 87 tackles, 13tfl, 21 sacks and 8 FF.
Nope. In wk 13, he was behind my two picks, and had more plays than either of 'em. Now, after a 2 sack 6 hurry game against a CPU team, he's in the lead. I'll do a final pass after wk 16.
Did you miss Jenkins of the Aces for DT? dude has 87 tackles, 13tfl, 21 sacks and 8 FF.
Nope. In wk 13, he was behind my two picks, and had more plays than either of 'em. Now, after a 2 sack 6 hurry game against a CPU team, he's in the lead. I'll do a final pass after wk 16.
The Duff Man
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Originally posted by Galkuris
Players to watch:
DT http://goallineblitz.com/game/full_player_stats.pl?player_id=117812&playoffs=0
Reason to watch: Mike Dee has 2 very tough conference games left. Sack Youalso has the gutted Dayton and a current non-playoff team Washington. Thus Dee hasn't played nearly as tough of a schedule
Mike Dee (DT) with two more sacks today against a playoff team.
:flex:
Players to watch:
DT http://goallineblitz.com/game/full_player_stats.pl?player_id=117812&playoffs=0
Reason to watch: Mike Dee has 2 very tough conference games left. Sack Youalso has the gutted Dayton and a current non-playoff team Washington. Thus Dee hasn't played nearly as tough of a schedule
Mike Dee (DT) with two more sacks today against a playoff team.
:flex:
flames54
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Originally posted by Capaneus
Originally posted by flames54
Did you miss Jenkins of the Aces for DT? dude has 87 tackles, 13tfl, 21 sacks and 8 FF.
Nope. In wk 13, he was behind my two picks, and had more plays than either of 'em. Now, after a 2 sack 6 hurry game against a CPU team, he's in the lead. I'll do a final pass after wk 16.
Wasn't sure, he's always been great for us, despite the inflated stats against cpu's.
Originally posted by flames54
Did you miss Jenkins of the Aces for DT? dude has 87 tackles, 13tfl, 21 sacks and 8 FF.
Nope. In wk 13, he was behind my two picks, and had more plays than either of 'em. Now, after a 2 sack 6 hurry game against a CPU team, he's in the lead. I'll do a final pass after wk 16.
Wasn't sure, he's always been great for us, despite the inflated stats against cpu's.
Capaneus
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Originally posted by flames54
Wasn't sure, he's always been great for us, despite the inflated stats against cpu's.
Always good to see owners supporting their players, and I've definitely missed people. Didn't mean to diss the vs. CPU stats either, since we all get to play 'em.
Wasn't sure, he's always been great for us, despite the inflated stats against cpu's.
Always good to see owners supporting their players, and I've definitely missed people. Didn't mean to diss the vs. CPU stats either, since we all get to play 'em.
hud
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Hey Capaneus, I would have to argue that after today's game it is crazy to put Ash Ketchum on the WR list above Skram Dizzle. He is tied for first in TDs and just behind Ash in Yardage.
PB and Jade is a close call. They both did what they do in today's game. PB put up the TDs and Jade put up the Yards.
PB and Jade is a close call. They both did what they do in today's game. PB put up the TDs and Jade put up the Yards.
Capaneus
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Originally posted by hud
Hey Capaneus, I would have to argue that after today's game it is crazy to put Ash Ketchum on the WR list above Skram Dizzle. He is tied for first in TDs and just behind Ash in Yardage.
After doing a quick look, I would agree with you. However, I'd prefer to update the West all at once, after I'm done with the East.
Hey Capaneus, I would have to argue that after today's game it is crazy to put Ash Ketchum on the WR list above Skram Dizzle. He is tied for first in TDs and just behind Ash in Yardage.
After doing a quick look, I would agree with you. However, I'd prefer to update the West all at once, after I'm done with the East.
Skyline
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Originally posted by Capaneus
CB1:
Starter: Mike Chen of the San Jose Spartans- 5 Ints and 38 PDs is a dominant stat line for a CB this season, and that’s over 40 passing plays he’s stopped cold. (115)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/full_player_stats.pl?player_id=27318&playoffs=0
Thanks, I appreciate it. Glad he was able to break thru this season.
CB1:
Starter: Mike Chen of the San Jose Spartans- 5 Ints and 38 PDs is a dominant stat line for a CB this season, and that’s over 40 passing plays he’s stopped cold. (115)
http://goallineblitz.com/game/full_player_stats.pl?player_id=27318&playoffs=0
Thanks, I appreciate it. Glad he was able to break thru this season.
Jed
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Originally posted by dirk41
Originally posted by Jed
Oh, and Dirk, considering William Davis is #3 in sacks and Reggie White #1 in hurries (not to mention that I can't remember the last time someone actually tried to run up the middle on us because of our DTs), I'm pretty sure we could rep the East damn well with The Big Uglies.
Lawrence Jackson is first in sacks with 61, 10 ahead of Davis.
Minister of Defense is fourth in sacks with 48, 3 behind Davis.
Lawrence Jackson is fourth in hurries.
Lawrence Jackson is eleventh in tackles.
Lawrence Jackson is fourth in forced fumbles.
I probably missed some others though....
Who were your guys again?
Look again
Willie Davis:#1 in sacks, #3 in hurries
Reggie White: #1 in Hurries, #8 in Sacks
Mean Joe used to get more stats, but the speed of the DEs is just too much for him to really get the stats anymore, but on passing plays, he gets more than his share of penetration.
And still, no one is dumb enough to run up the middle on us to get our DTs many stats.
Originally posted by Jed
Oh, and Dirk, considering William Davis is #3 in sacks and Reggie White #1 in hurries (not to mention that I can't remember the last time someone actually tried to run up the middle on us because of our DTs), I'm pretty sure we could rep the East damn well with The Big Uglies.
Lawrence Jackson is first in sacks with 61, 10 ahead of Davis.
Minister of Defense is fourth in sacks with 48, 3 behind Davis.
Lawrence Jackson is fourth in hurries.
Lawrence Jackson is eleventh in tackles.
Lawrence Jackson is fourth in forced fumbles.
I probably missed some others though....
Who were your guys again?
Look again
Willie Davis:#1 in sacks, #3 in hurries
Reggie White: #1 in Hurries, #8 in Sacks
Mean Joe used to get more stats, but the speed of the DEs is just too much for him to really get the stats anymore, but on passing plays, he gets more than his share of penetration.
And still, no one is dumb enough to run up the middle on us to get our DTs many stats.
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