Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Mamba81
Hey guys,

I'm own Chad Heetland, the level 17 WR and former owner of the Mambas. If you guys have any questions about the deal and how it came about I'd love to discuss it. I posted my free agency offer and obtained over 250 offers and Alcapown presented his team the best out of anyone that contacted me. Plus he could bring some of my friends with as well which was attractive.

My intention was never to pick on the lower leagues. If we would have stayed here and not moved up I would never have done it, because I'm all about fair play.

Thank you Bill Clinton for providing another version of "it depends on what you definition of 'is' is. I think you owe apologies not excuses, starting with the poor guy who spent real $$ on flex points to buy that gutted team you dumped on him.

Originally posted by Mamba81
If this is that controversial than maybe we need to move. I never foresaw this kind of reception.

If that's your collective decision than we can reverse what was done.

I think you have more or less seen the collective decision in this forum. If you are the upstanding citizens you will make this right as you suggest. My guess is though it wont be corrected and we will have either you or Alcapown blame that on the trade deadline or something else.

Originally posted by cyclone crazy
Originally posted by Mamba81

If you want to bring this to admin, we can just solve it ourselves and disband the players that were signed.

I don't want to cause this kind of trouble.

Your missing the issue. Every other owner in this league has character. They started with a base of players and added low levels to build within their league. The issue isnt with you as a player, as much as with your owner who has no respect for anyone else in his league, players or owners. Your just icing on the crap cake.



Crazy you may have missed it but Mamba IS that owner, HE WAS THE CRAP CAKE.

Originally posted by Alcapown
You care an awful lot about us meathead, are things that bad on your team that you sit on these forums and post useless after useless thread with no point in your argument that hasnt been previously posted. The fact is, I did not cheat, I just recruited players, and i was ecstatic obviously, the gutting or watever is not my business, nor did I know that much about it. Get over it, recruit strong, game plan strong, and bring your best.

Things are actually really good, that's not the point, the point is you cheated and then you lied about it and continue to do so. You and your pal gutted a higher team which is against the GLB guidelines and we're calling you out on it. You helped gut a team, that is cheating.

If the admins here fail to take appropriate action I will also leave as I'm not supporting a site that allows cheaters to compete against people trying to build the honest way.

Bringing players down a league shouldn't be allowed unless it happens within a certain level (average) and only done at the start of the season. Loading up on high average players in a lesser league for the playoffs is bull shit and it's cheating. I also sent the admins and owner a pm and was very vocal about leaving if they don't do something.

With luck both owners will be history.

Originally posted by Yard Dog
Originally posted by shacky21

It's the fact that cash means nothing in this league. If cash were an issue, no way could someone hire ten mercenaries off the FA wire without bankrupting their team. If they wanted to do that for one season, fine....but here he could sign them all for peanuts because of the way the game is designed.

A bunch of pro's go back to high school ball is basically what this is. And they go there not for cash but to beat up on the high school kids. Unrealistic.

I play on an old timers softball league, where good players are forced to play in the higher leagues!

yes but wisdom and treachery always beats youth and enthusiasm.

Originally posted by General Terms
Originally posted by cyclone crazy

Originally posted by Mamba81


If you want to bring this to admin, we can just solve it ourselves and disband the players that were signed.

I don't want to cause this kind of trouble.

Your missing the issue. Every other owner in this league has character. They started with a base of players and added low levels to build within their league. The issue isnt with you as a player, as much as with your owner who has no respect for anyone else in his league, players or owners. Your just icing on the crap cake.



Crazy you may have missed it but Mamba IS that owner, HE WAS THE CRAP CAKE.

Mmmm cake - Homer Simpson

What is the definition of gutting a team now? Not even half to players on my team came to this league, so should I have kept everyone under contract on my team when I sold it to avoid "gutting" it. the guy who bought it fully understood nearly no human players would be on it, there was no harm done there.

Originally posted by Sinyen
Originally posted by winchester

Originally posted by General Terms


Originally posted by Alcapown



Well, I dont know how you define gutting exactly, but he is passing ownership of the team in the post season, and him and his guys wanted off, but ya I see what you are saying, but as far as using someone elses log in ID, I think that is wrong lol, and not on par with whats going on here, but I understand what you are saying, but when I talked to Mamba, saw his post, and heard he is passing ownership, I didnt look at it from the perspective of gutting his team, I looked at if from what my perspective, and I think any owner in this league wouldve loved to have gotten these guys, I put my cards on the table, and opposed to the hundreds of offers he had to choose from, he picked mine, and some of his guys followed some didnt, but I think any owner would have done the exact same thing. I dont see the wrong on MY part. I had a great teal for my team, I didnt gut a team, thats not my decision. But I understand what you are saying, I just dont want to be labeled a cheater when I did nothing against the reals that would constitute calling me a cheater. And I think you can agree with that. But I see what you are saying.

you dont see anything wrong with this situation? how about the new owner of the AAA team who is going to inherit the cash and garbage you sent over for the crew of ringers?

He did not trade for these guys, they were all FA's.


So they were all released and picked up instead of traded. Shows even more sign of collusion because a FA can be picked up for cheap whereas the trade system forces you to give something in return.

DING DING DING We have a winner!
Gutting

Originally posted by winchester
Originally posted by General Terms

Originally posted by Yard Dog


The problem is that, no one should have been able to join one of the newly created teams if the were over such a level. Bringing level 16's to come play against level 10's is jsut ridiculous...

I think i will propose a change whereby you will have to be within a certain level range of the league average where you are being traded to. For instance a level 7 could trade up to any league they wanted, but a level 15 would have to be within a certain range to trade down into a league with a lower average level. Another idea would be to not only hit chemistry but make it so recently traded players would have to sit out a few games before gaining eligibility, sort of like college transfers.

You say this and you got LVL 14 and 15 guys on you team. You should cut these gus then, it's not fair. There is one guy on the team that is a lvl 17, other then that they only have what you have too. I should be the one bitching my highest lvl playere is a lvl 11.



The level 14 and 15 guys were signed as FAs when they were 10 - 12. They have earned their levels on our team after I spent weeks locating, recruiting, and signing them. I have not bothered to find out if you are GMing a team. But if you had you would know that at the start of the season IT WAS A NIGHTMARE trying to find talent to fill out your roster. When you did it was lvl 1 players who boosted. As the first few games of the season rolled on you were the Quick and the Dead as to finding more talent. I am proud of my team and even prouder of how it was built. Pardon me if it bothers me that someone else bypassed all of that by gutting.

Originally posted by Mamba81
What is the definition of gutting a team now? Not even half to players on my team came to this league, so should I have kept everyone under contract on my team when I sold it to avoid "gutting" it. the guy who bought it fully understood nearly no human players would be on it, there was no harm done there.



The gutting rule is on the main forum posted by Bork. They have kicked out owners in the past for gutting teams.

Originally posted by General Terms
Originally posted by winchester

Originally posted by General Terms


Originally posted by Yard Dog



The problem is that, no one should have been able to join one of the newly created teams if the were over such a level. Bringing level 16's to come play against level 10's is jsut ridiculous...

I think i will propose a change whereby you will have to be within a certain level range of the league average where you are being traded to. For instance a level 7 could trade up to any league they wanted, but a level 15 would have to be within a certain range to trade down into a league with a lower average level. Another idea would be to not only hit chemistry but make it so recently traded players would have to sit out a few games before gaining eligibility, sort of like college transfers.

You say this and you got LVL 14 and 15 guys on you team. You should cut these gus then, it's not fair. There is one guy on the team that is a lvl 17, other then that they only have what you have too. I should be the one bitching my highest lvl playere is a lvl 11.



The level 14 and 15 guys were signed as FAs when they were 10 - 12. They have earned their levels on our team after I spent weeks locating, recruiting, and signing them. I have not bothered to find out if you are GMing a team. But if you had you would know that at the start of the season IT WAS A NIGHTMARE trying to find talent to fill out your roster. When you did it was lvl 1 players who boosted. As the first few games of the season rolled on you were the Quick and the Dead as to finding more talent. I am proud of my team and even prouder of how it was built. Pardon me if it bothers me that someone else bypassed all of that by gutting.

We went about our players via our message board and watched our guys grow from level 1's to 11's now. I have 3 players that I started just this season as did a large percentage of our team.

And I'm with you that it bothers me and many others that we have cheaters in our league.

Originally posted by Yard Dog
I like the idea for the most part, but lets say I want to trade my top 3 CB's that are all level 10's. For 1 standout CB that is level 16. Now your saying that trading all my depth for 1 higher leveled guy can't be done. Their needs to be a cap on the introduced FA levels and a group of people viewing trades.

Thats why i suggested that a new body be within a select range of the average. in your scenario with the idea you could trade up in a package deal to get that high level player. however, because of depth issue no team could do this more than once or twice. you could trade 3 for a star or two and i think that would be fair. every team has a star player.

however, in the presenting situation all of this would be moot since we have learned that the ringers were not traded for but dropped by mamba's team and then simultaneously signed by cheattanogga. they circumvented the entire trade imbalance system put in by the admins to avoid just such a situation. otherwise they could never have accomplished the player transfer. knowing this it is a wonder how anyone on can defend the action.

Wow you guys are serious, I mean were a little higher levels, butits not like we have walked our way through games. If this was going to incite a riot I would never have done it.

How about we talk about it and work it out before calling 911 and filing lawsuits.

Originally posted by Billsman
Originally posted by Mamba81

What is the definition of gutting a team now? Not even half to players on my team came to this league, so should I have kept everyone under contract on my team when I sold it to avoid "gutting" it. the guy who bought it fully understood nearly no human players would be on it, there was no harm done there.



The gutting rule is on the main forum posted by Bork. They have kicked out owners in the past for gutting teams.

Taken directly from the Bort post on this issue:

'Day Trading' - Signing free agents to contracts in order to turn around and sell them to the highest bidder. Possibly also trading or buying players from other teams in order to do this as well.

'Collusion' - Two or more people working together to build up one team at the expense of another.

'Cheating' - A person using multiple accounts to buy teams and trade to their main team in order to stock it up on cash or players.

'Gutting' - Buying a team, stripping it of its resources and then selling the team back for the next poor sucker to buy.


Lets see did the present problem involved two people? Mamba and Alcapown - CHECK.

Did one team get built up while another was laid to waste? Cheattanoogga is much better yes, and the other team now populated with CPUs - CHECK.

Did one team get stripped of its resources and then sold? The AAA team is populated with CPUs when it did have high level humans and now it is under new ownership - CHECK.

After a careful analysis I have concluded that what we have here is something new, a hybrid if you will. Collud-i-gutting? Gutt-llusion?