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mandyross
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Originally posted by jdbolick

Actually I do know that there have been multiple threads in there created to discuss some of my builds, such as the one about me putting so much agility equipment on my LT. But you're kind of making my point regarding how private forums have damaged the quality of debate in the public forums. During this game's heydey, there were great threads in GLB main where people discovered all kinds of information that probably forms the basis for most of what gets shared in your private forum. Maybe it's a futile wish, but I would prefer if people went back to sharing that information publicly so anyone could read it.


I often reference your builds, thanks for keeping them open. Your LOT directly influenced my equipment choice for my LOT. We've also had a discussion about the First Step possible issue on OTs which originated from your initial observations.

I agree with you about the access to information issue that the PFs have introduced. Note though that, unlike other networks, we are not selective in who we invite, so everyone in GLB has the option to gain access to the posts in this forum, even if it is just to read. Also I'd like to say that several thoughts and bits of information that are easily accessible in this forum do make their way around; as an example there is easy access within to the NiborRis player value spreadsheet, the first one which actually cracked Bort's strange formula, which I often post in the public forums. Also people work together in there to better an idea or a concept, before it gets posted publicly. As for removing the traffic from the public forums, I'd estimate that nearly all agents who give out advice in here would simply not post their thoughts in the public forums due to the fact that they are less ... hmmmm how can I say this ... civil.

Personally, I got involved in this PF as the invite lackey a year ago or so. Around this time, an organisation of agents would deliberately troll and give out bad advice (I mean real bad, even I knew it was wrong) in the public forums, and then tried to shut down this forum on the premise that the original owner had been inactive for some time, getting a moderator to lock all threads and to post a sticky in this PF directing all agents to another build advice forum (that is selective concerning who they allow to join). A few of us were motivated enough to keep the forum going, to help people who were receiving awful advice in the public forums at that time and provide a more balanced, friendly and relaxed PF option to the other network "build advice" forums out there.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Sorry, I shouldn't have posted at all, it just hit a pet peeve of mine when he said that "This forum is a must for every agent.Join this or your not playing this game right." I'm leaving now; carry on.


As for the agent I quoted, I was merely trying to break up the monotony of "invites sent" posts in here from me by doing what all advertisers do, namely quoting a "satisfied customer". I think that everyone will see it as such and not interpret it as anything more than a situation such as Charlie Sheen endorsing herpes cream, for example. Personally I do not think that this forum is a "must have", it is only quite helpful. Our "official" blurb about the forum can be found in the opening post (but please, don't start to pick that apart ... wait until Monday at least when I'm back at work)!

With all that said, when I quote another agent's opinion on our forum in the future I'll remember to put in a disclaimer for you.
Edited by mandyross on Oct 8, 2011 13:05:31
 
TheGreatAus
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Originally posted by jdbolick

you posted that "This forum is a must for every agent.Join this or your not playing this game right." That statement was not only inaccurate, but arguably damaging to the site. People can get quality advice from public forums, and it's dishonest to suggest otherwise. Please just stick to advertising your private forum and not implying that agents can't get equal or superior advice in the public forums.


We didnt post this, this guy did here: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4639992&page=12#43742914 . I would say yell at him if you must, but dont, he found something good and told others about at his own behest, its that simple. Sorry if you feel otherwise.

Originally posted by jdbolick

"This forum is a must for every agent.Join this or your not playing this game right." That statement was not only inaccurate, but arguably damaging to the site.


Prove it. Ask everyone in the builds forum their opinion or why they post. Theres a reason why they post in there and contribute to the conversation. Largely in part because, like mandyross said, because they know its a constructive environment, which is far unlike GLB main...that I can actually prove.

Originally posted by jdbolick

Please just stick to advertising your private forum and not implying that agents can't get equal or superior advice in the public forums.


We are. We cant help it if someone else posts that they like the forum that we manage. All we've done is create the environment for people to talk without being harassed. Which, believe it or not, is what you are doing here by making false claims. I dont know if we've ever talked about your LT with agility...maybe at one point sure, its possible, theres literally 20 different conversations at any given time. So if your LT did something cool, kudos, we used it to make someone else more informed. So, by that standpoint alone, if we give out such shitty adivce, is that why we would have used your LT as an example? Or, on the otherhand, if we actually give it out good advice, we find good dots and piece together a great argument...all of us, not just mandyross and myself, but ALL the agents.

Catch22...what do you do now jd? Agree with other agents that this forum is worthwhile or call your down dot a PoS? NEXT!

 
jdbolick
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Well since you guys responded, I'll rebut.

Originally posted by mandyross
As for removing the traffic from the public forums, I'd estimate that nearly all agents who give out advice in here would simply not post their thoughts in the public forums due to the fact that they are less ... hmmmm how can I say this ... civil.

That has nothing to do with anything. Much if not most of the information discovered about this game came from spirited / heated debates. Oversight and moderation does nothing to improve discussion, it merely limits it. Deathblade and I have done more to find out how the sim works than just about anyone else, and neither of us are "nice." When someone does ask for advice in Rate My Player, someone like Rage, bug03, or myself will usually respond. When someone asks in FAQ, Mat McBriar responds. A private forum just limits the number of people who get information.

Originally posted by
With all that said, when I quote another agent's opinion on our forum in the future I'll remember to put in a disclaimer for you.

Just be more conscious of what you choose to quote. Maybe I'm being too sensitive, but someone saying "Join this or your not playing this game right" is an insult to everything that has been and continues to be done in the public forums.



Originally posted by TheGreatAus
Prove it. Ask everyone in the builds forum their opinion or why they post. Theres a reason why they post in there and contribute to the conversation. Largely in part because, like mandyross said, because they know its a constructive environment, which is far unlike GLB main...that I can actually prove.

Discussions in the GLB public forums have done far, far more to reveal the nature of the sim and disseminate that information than your private forum. I'd actually argue that private forums like yours have actually hurt the amount and quality of discussion about the game, since there hasn't been nearly as much progress in the last year as there was in the year before that.

Originally posted by
All we've done is create the environment for people to talk without being harassed. Which, believe it or not, is what you are doing here by making false claims.

You guys are the ones who have repeatedly made false claims, not me. I didn't make you lie about your QB's player value relative to other QBs of that era.

Originally posted by
So, by that standpoint alone, if we give out such shitty adivce, is that why we would have used your LT as an example? Or, on the otherhand, if we actually give it out good advice, we find good dots and piece together a great argument...all of us, not just mandyross and myself, but ALL the agents. Catch22...what do you do now jd? Agree with other agents that this forum is worthwhile or call your down dot a PoS? NEXT!

You should really just let mandyross handle discussion of your private forum because you do a really bad job of trying to make an argument. For instance, the notion that talking about my LT means that your forum is either worthwhile or my dot is crap makes no sense whatsoever. I don't even understand how your brain would come to create that dichotomy. If someone wanted to talk about my LT, wouldn't I be the best one to talk to?

In my opinion, private forums like yours hurt the game, they don't help it. Anyone who posts information in there could be posting it publicly where all the non-members could see it as well. Gate-keeping that information just seems like an attempt at relevance that your dot-building never achieved. I'd personally rather see people posting in the public forums like they used to do more often, as I still do, to help as many people as possible. Feel free to disagree, but I just don't like you guys posting or quoting people who post that people can't get the information they need in public forums. They can, and maybe if your private forum didn't exist then they would be getting it more often.
Edited by jdbolick on Oct 8, 2011 14:27:11
Edited by jdbolick on Oct 8, 2011 14:27:03
 
Skanker irl
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Originally posted by jdbolick
It's run by two guys who have never had any success in GLB


Cosign
 
TheGreatAus
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Originally posted by jdbolick

You should really just let mandyross handle discussion of your private forum because you do a really bad job of trying to make an argument. For instance, the notion that talking about my LT means that your forum is either worthwhile or my dot is crap makes no sense whatsoever. I don't even understand how your brain would come to create that dichotomy. If someone wanted to talk about my LT, wouldn't I be the best one to talk to?

In my opinion, private forums like yours hurt the game, they don't help it. Anyone who posts information in there could be posting it publicly where all the non-members could see it as well. Gate-keeping that information just seems like an attempt at relevance that your dot-building never achieved. I'd personally rather see people posting in the public forums like they used to do more often, as I still do, to help as many people as possible. Feel free to disagree, but I just don't like you guys posting or quoting people who post that people can't get the information they need in public forums. They can, and maybe if your private forum didn't exist then they would be getting it more often.


Dude, Ive proven you wrong before on many other things. Just stop posting in this thread, this is for people who want to ask a question like this: 'What should I do with my TE?' and not get a million responses like, 'retire', 'loldot', or some other bullshit that IS out there. If you dont believe me, or mandyross, go have a look yourself and tell me it doesnt exist. Im sorry your brain cant handle arguments outside of your own capacity, but the world still revolves, its just not around you. So stop posting in here and trying to convince people it does.

We help people, bottomline. You say its a disservice to GLB, I've got a league of people that would say otherwise. Just because you cant monitor the conversation doesnt mean we arent having a good one and arent picking the game apart in our own, non-ignant jdbolick fashion. In fact, this thread: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4746159&page=1 , started as a conversation in the Build Advice Forum. If you want to contribute, or see what its like, I will send you an invite, but stop posting in this thread, it is for invites.

And skanker, seriously, grow up dude.
 
mandyross
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Originally posted by TheGreatAus
this thread, it is for invites.


Please (to all in this discussion, even me)

I think that the merits of the helpfulness of PFs, contrasted with the possible reduced public forum activity (when compared to the past, definitely), is an interesting topic. I'd just prefer for it to be in a different thread than this invite one if it's going to run for pages and pages! Whilst I have actually enjoyed a great part of the previous discussion, I'd prefer it if this thread was mainly for people asking for invites, so that when I check it I can get them all done quickly and not miss one amongst the hullabaloo.


 
jdbolick
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Originally posted by TheGreatAus
Dude, Ive proven you wrong before on many other things.

Like what?


Originally posted by
Im sorry your brain cant handle arguments outside of your own capacity

It's amusing to see you post about trolling and then post things like this. The difference between someone like you and someone like me isn't that you're civil, because you're clearly not. The difference is that I know what I'm talking about, while you like to pretend that you do. Lying about your QB's player value compared to the best QBs of that era was just evidence of that.

Originally posted by
We help people, bottomline.

You personally don't know enough to help people. As to whether your private forum does more overall to help or hurt GLB, that's debatable.

Originally posted by
In fact, this thread: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4746159&page=1 , started as a conversation in the Build Advice Forum.

Uhm ... people have been talking about the ineffectiveness of fakes on special teams returns for over ten seasons. If that's what constitutes "new" discussion in your private forum, then no one is benefiting. Since you apparently didn't already know, it's because Bort coded fakes to be influenced by orientation. When a defender is coming head on to a ball carrier, then fakes won't be nearly as effective as they are when the defender is coming from an angle. Then the other factor, obviously, is that fakes only work within a specified range of distance, and that distance is covered much more quickly on returns since both the returner and the defenders are generally moving at higher speed than a normal down on offense.
 
TheGreatAus
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Is this your way of asking for an invite? Because if its not, please see mandross's post, and mine, and the ones before it, this thread is for invites for people who want help, be helped, and to have engaging, open conversations. Please stop spamming this thread.
 
monebolts
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invite please
 
TheGreatAus
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Originally posted by monebolts
invite please


Sent.
 
mandyross
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Originally posted by monebolts
invite please


Amen

Now is the time to ask for invites! It seems that we are checking up on this thread a little more frequently than usual.
 
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Invite please. Thanks.
 
defaultzero
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I will take an invite
 
mandyross
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Sent
 
lucifer_pdx
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invite plz
 
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