Can I make a QB and retire him as soon as he throws an interception?
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alfies
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Originally posted by Statalyzer
Originally posted by
Thats what they said about Vick.
It was true of him too. He was also stuck in a West Coast Offense that is the worst possible system for a team with a scrambling QB and zero WRs who can routinely turn 2 yard slants/outs into 7-10 yard gains.
Or he was just a terrible passer.
Fact.
That West Coast offense really hurt Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Donovan McNabb.
Whoops.
Originally posted by
Thats what they said about Vick.
It was true of him too. He was also stuck in a West Coast Offense that is the worst possible system for a team with a scrambling QB and zero WRs who can routinely turn 2 yard slants/outs into 7-10 yard gains.
Or he was just a terrible passer.
Fact.
That West Coast offense really hurt Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Donovan McNabb.
Whoops.
Last edited Sep 11, 2008 10:59:15
teamriots
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the west coast offense (bill walsh HATED this term) is brilliant if you have the right personnel
I'm willing to create a Eugene Amano (RG) if you get the team. I'll keep an eye on this thread.
Statalyzer
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Originally posted by
That West Coast offense really hurt Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Donovan McNabb.
Uhh, please tell me where I said the West Coast was a bad offense.
The West Coast needs receivers that can take thing like 2 yard quick out and WR screens and turn them into 7-10 yard gains. This is devastating because the passes is quick (tough to get a hurry/sack) and safe, but the defender can hardly afford to play the man tight enough to prevent such a short route without risking getting BURNED deep. So, you have make a great tackle and limit the guy's YAC, usually by yourself in the open field - that's a lot of pressure on the defense.
Jerry Rice was nearly unstoppable when he could take a 5 yard slant and end up gaining 15 yards, and even if he couldn't, fine, the Niners would take the 5 yards, get 2nd and 5, then run it again and get the first down, etc. McNabb had Owens and Westbrook when he was really successful. Culpepper usually looks like an average QB, but give him Randy Moss and suddenly he looks awesome.
Note that I'm not saying good WRs just made Montana and McNabb good. But no QB looks great without them. Bad WRs (or a bad line, FWIW) make a great QB look average and an average QB looks bad).
I don't have the exact numbers with me, but when throwing to the RB/TE position, Vince is right in the middle of the pack as far as NFL starting passers are concerned in terms of QB rating - neither good nor bad. But he's one of the worst in the league all of sudden when he throws to WRs. Vince's rookie year the team went 0-5 with Collins either the starter or splitting time, and then VY took over full-time and they went 8-3.
I haven't seen a similar analysis on Vick but I bet they are the same thing as far as passer rating improving drastically when throwing to TEs/RBs instead of WRs. Probably neither guy was a great passer, but both guys were good enough that if you gave them Moss/Welker/Stallworth/Gaffney, or maybe Owens/Glenn/Witten, they could look good. But neither guy had the chance. Vick still managed to overachieve and get his team to the NFC championship.
Vince still has to cut down on his interceptions, which are mostly on him. But even if he gets those down, he still won't be throwing many TD passes when his guys can't get separation and drop the pass half the time when they do.
That West Coast offense really hurt Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Donovan McNabb.
Uhh, please tell me where I said the West Coast was a bad offense.
The West Coast needs receivers that can take thing like 2 yard quick out and WR screens and turn them into 7-10 yard gains. This is devastating because the passes is quick (tough to get a hurry/sack) and safe, but the defender can hardly afford to play the man tight enough to prevent such a short route without risking getting BURNED deep. So, you have make a great tackle and limit the guy's YAC, usually by yourself in the open field - that's a lot of pressure on the defense.
Jerry Rice was nearly unstoppable when he could take a 5 yard slant and end up gaining 15 yards, and even if he couldn't, fine, the Niners would take the 5 yards, get 2nd and 5, then run it again and get the first down, etc. McNabb had Owens and Westbrook when he was really successful. Culpepper usually looks like an average QB, but give him Randy Moss and suddenly he looks awesome.
Note that I'm not saying good WRs just made Montana and McNabb good. But no QB looks great without them. Bad WRs (or a bad line, FWIW) make a great QB look average and an average QB looks bad).
I don't have the exact numbers with me, but when throwing to the RB/TE position, Vince is right in the middle of the pack as far as NFL starting passers are concerned in terms of QB rating - neither good nor bad. But he's one of the worst in the league all of sudden when he throws to WRs. Vince's rookie year the team went 0-5 with Collins either the starter or splitting time, and then VY took over full-time and they went 8-3.
I haven't seen a similar analysis on Vick but I bet they are the same thing as far as passer rating improving drastically when throwing to TEs/RBs instead of WRs. Probably neither guy was a great passer, but both guys were good enough that if you gave them Moss/Welker/Stallworth/Gaffney, or maybe Owens/Glenn/Witten, they could look good. But neither guy had the chance. Vick still managed to overachieve and get his team to the NFC championship.
Vince still has to cut down on his interceptions, which are mostly on him. But even if he gets those down, he still won't be throwing many TD passes when his guys can't get separation and drop the pass half the time when they do.
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