Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Saris
I think the lack of a DT award is a valid point, and there are definitely some players left off who deserve to be there.

But we shouldn't lose track of the fact that Sam's putting a lot of effort into this between researching players and tallying votes etc.

There will never be an arbitrary awards system that everyone's happy with. Just bear in mind that due to incessant complaining we can lose some of the forum's cooler features, such as madet0rder's power rankings.


i can't speak for anyone else, but i wasn't complaining....in fact, i think i mentioned in my first post on here that there's really no way to get a perfect list without spending WAY too much time looking into it all....

just giving everyone a straw man to discuss and argue about is much appreciated.

Originally posted by Okole

i can't speak for anyone else, but i wasn't complaining....in fact, i think i mentioned in my first post on here that there's really no way to get a perfect list without spending WAY too much time looking into it all....

just giving everyone a straw man to discuss and argue about is much appreciated.

No I agree, it would be kind of pointless to have a list like this that people didn't discuss. My comment was only meant to be preemptive, reminding people not to get too critical of those who are willing to put the effort in.

Im all for discussion but when multiple people do nothing but sit back and talk about how "poorly put together" the rankings are, it's no longer discussion. I realize everyone wants their players or teammates on the list but you can't expect Sam to follow every player on every single team through every game.

I don't think it was so much that as the fact that:

1. he missed a few players that some might consider obvious and
2. some of his lists are nothing more than a listing of stat producers, despite those stats being very unimportant in measuring a player's value to a team or within the confines of the league.

Again, I don't think anyone is knocking his effort. We ALL understand the effort that would be required to REALLY gather good data for lists such as these...

Originally posted by CTap
I don't think it was so much that as the fact that:

1. he missed a few players that some might consider obvious and
2. some of his lists are nothing more than a listing of stat producers, despite those stats being very unimportant in measuring a player's value to a team or within the confines of the league.

Again, I don't think anyone is knocking his effort. We ALL understand the effort that would be required to REALLY gather good data for lists such as these...



Really? Because "I think most people would rather see rather wait a few days (or see no list) than see a poorly thrown together list." seems pretty bad. Claiming "no list" is better than Sam's list? Don't kid yourself. What about "looks like they were all just kinda thrown together or something"? Thrown together? The effort to track all these players and statistics is immense. Read the posts dude, people are knocking it and it's laughable. If these are just "thrown together" then it should be easy to make a better list, which is why I suggested that people who have a problem with the list should stop bitching and go make their own.

Originally posted by Okole
how are you counting 5 toughest games? 5 worst statistical or against the top 5 teams in the conference?
I picked who I felt were their five toughest opponents.

Pinball Wiz wins based on the amount of receptions that is ridiculous I dont care who you are. And I voted for Ray Finkle for MVP nobody stood out besides him. I expect Law Jacson to get 30+ sacks.

Originally posted by chad13
Originally posted by CTap

I don't think it was so much that as the fact that:

1. he missed a few players that some might consider obvious and
2. some of his lists are nothing more than a listing of stat producers, despite those stats being very unimportant in measuring a player's value to a team or within the confines of the league.

Again, I don't think anyone is knocking his effort. We ALL understand the effort that would be required to REALLY gather good data for lists such as these...



Really? Because "I think most people would rather see rather wait a few days (or see no list) than see a poorly thrown together list." seems pretty bad. Claiming "no list" is better than Sam's list? Don't kid yourself. What about "looks like they were all just kinda thrown together or something"? Thrown together? The effort to track all these players and statistics is immense. Read the posts dude, people are knocking it and it's laughable. If these are just "thrown together" then it should be easy to make a better list, which is why I suggested that people who have a problem with the list should stop bitching and go make their own.

while i tend to agree with you at least to a certain degree, i also think that bolstersam is a big boy and can defend himself if he's feeling attacked.

Originally posted by Okole
while i tend to agree with you at least to a certain degree, i also think that bolstersam is a big boy and can defend himself if he's feeling attacked.

What does that have to do with anything? I'm not trying to defend sam specifically. It's just sad when some people go out of their way to try to make GLB more interesting and fun for the users only to have a bunch of whiners cry and bitch that their player or teammate didn't get enough attention. Like Saris said, there's a reason madet0rder's rankings stopped.

OK, well maybe two people took negative stances toward his list... most of them seemed to be debating the merits of people on it vs those not on it. And the two people who did make negative comments towards Sam or the list, fit into my #1 category above I think.

IMO The really interesting topic for debate, prior to creating the list, would have been "qualifiers" for it. FBs for instance, should have very different qualifications than they appear to have, IMO. LBs too, as Okole mentioned before.

Again, we all appreciate Sam doing this. I am just bringing up discussion points, not discounting his nominations.

A question - are write-in votes allowed or must votes be limited to Sam's nominees?

Originally posted by chad13
Originally posted by Okole

while i tend to agree with you at least to a certain degree, i also think that bolstersam is a big boy and can defend himself if he's feeling attacked.

What does that have to do with anything? I'm not trying to defend sam specifically. It's just sad when some people go out of their way to try to make GLB more interesting and fun for the users only to have a bunch of whiners cry and bitch that their player or teammate didn't get enough attention. Like Saris said, there's a reason madet0rder's rankings stopped.

chad, i think my issue here is that you came into a thread and fired buckshot when not everyone was griping. if your issue is with 2 people, call them out. but when 5-6 people are talking and you say what you said, it appears like you're aiming at the whole group. this leads to people who haven't done anything getting defensive.

If anybody thinks anyone from the Western Conference is going to win an award they are kidding themselves..

Originally posted by knightdemon
If anybody thinks anyone from the Western Conference is going to win an award they are kidding themselves..

it makes sense, though....bad defenses and players who pad stats against them are all in the east

oh, and there's that beastly DE that gives me nightmares as well

Who said it was just 2 people? Those were just examples. I have a problem with E.D. for MVP too. That argument doesn't make sense. Why should he be the most VALUABLE player (or top HB as TSE claims) when his team doesn't go to him a lot? Sure he has a lot of TD's and is an efficient scorer but he had 700 less yards than MJD and led his team to a 3rd place spot instead of a 1st place spot. Sure you could say he would have scored more if he had more carries but the MVP award isn't based on what a player "could" have done...it's based on what a player actually did. E.D. didn't even have 100 yards per game nor was he a top 5 rusher in terms of yards. So is E.D. a great player? Sure. Is he an MVP candidate? Hell no. The whole "he performs when he has a chance" argument is weak. That's not what an MVP does. MVP's carry the load...they aren't roleplayers. That's just more whining that a teammate didn't make the list.

So 7 people posted before I did. 2 were bitching about the list and saying it was basically crap. 2 more were whining their teammate (who isn't deserving) didn't make it. And your right I didn't see anything wrong with yours, galk's, or dontmeswidme's posts but I did see unproductive bitching with more than half of them (4/7). So excuse the "firing buckshot" as you claim but when more than half the users are making unproductive/ridiculous complaints, then I don't really wanna take the time singling people out when so many are doing it.

chad13,

Here's the deal: I have no idea how this list was compiled. Where did these names come from? Was it just a statistical breakdown? Was there any input from anyone else besides sam?

It's great that sam worked so hard to put this together but there are some pretty obvious omissions.

Maybe sam didn't have to work so hard to get these out immediately after the season? Maybe he could've asked for help or outside input? I'm sorry but I don't think people should get an ATTA BOY! just because they spent time typing something up. This could've been done better.

madetoorder's rankings were well done, creative, and involved input from a group of people who followd the league. I never was critical of those because they CLEARLY involved a lot of thought.

If anything, I think that group could've come out with a better set of awards or nominees.