Warrior General Games

I'm not 100% sure, but I am pretty sure when I say that you are wrong about the use of vision by a WR.

Yes, I know Bort's little hover-box says that the WR needs vision to find spots on the field that are open and go there...

But I think that vision for a WR functions exactly the same as it does for a DB, I think the WR has to pass a vision check to know that the ball is in the air...

Meaning that a possession WR who lacks physical skills such as speed and agility compared to the DB who is covering him would absolutely require more vision, maybe even drastically more...

Yes they would be able to out-jump the DB in a fair scenario, but if the DB passes the vision check before them, or at the same time as them, they would have the speed/agility combo needed to get to the ball before the WR, which completely eliminates the jump-ball scenario and results in a contested-catch or swat-ball roll for the DB, not the WR.

I agree that this vision difference is drastically more noticeable in peewee, because both players are failing the vision check pretty frequently, so the one with ANY vision stats usually will have a huge advantage over someone with very little vision stats... but I think this same concept applies to upper leagues it just is less VISIBLY noticeable.

But I think the concept that we are discussing is a gimmick WR who takes advantage of the "DEMAND" for 150 speed that people seem to be stuck on in World-League world.

I think a 90 Speed WR would NEED a lot of vision... simply put.

I have built a few slower WRs, and mid 60s vision is still plenty to pass the vision check to see the ball in the air. The thing that helps them win the catch ball rolls is high catching and jumping. After that, they are also sitting ducks for KL DBs, so they have to have some strength and carrying.

Then why would you ever go above mid 60s vision on a WR?

Originally posted by Stoned Beaver
Then why would you ever go above mid 60s vision on a WR?

Most don't, but vision helps with fakes.

Originally posted by lexden11
Most don't, but vision helps with fakes.

Oh okay, but fakes would be something I wouldn't be putting any points into on a possession WR built to just catch jump-balls.

Seeing as he isn't designed to get open...

Originally posted by Stoned Beaver
Vision checks occur like 1,000 times in a play, so if you really think about it having more Vision is being faster, more agile, better at jumping... EVERYTHING all at once...

Because if your player passes the vision check a whole tick before the opposing player, you can be much much slower than them and still get ahead of them.

Originally posted by Dave Mr Majors
+1 to this. Vision is at least the number 2 skill on any coverage/zone/INT dot. Speed is arguably the only skill that is more important.

Haha, my player has great Vision but bad speed (I built him wrong) and I see it in his play (on slants..... oh gosh). Still he can make plays on people who are faster because he has high vision. He leads the team in PD.

http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4648312

My LB has pretty high VIS (75) and AGIL (95) with 48 JUMP and the Long Wingspan perk and he leads his team in PD's....

http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4568064

Originally posted by Tyroen Jones
My LB has pretty high VIS (75) and AGIL (95) with 48 JUMP and the Long Wingspan perk and he leads his team in PD's....

http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4568064



High vision would be around what your AGIL is. And he leads his team in Reg Pro but not in the league.

Originally posted by Stoned Beaver
Oh okay, but fakes would be something I wouldn't be putting any points into on a possession WR built to just catch jump-balls.

Seeing as he isn't designed to get open...

Stick to defense.

On offense receivers in GLB that are being targeted always see the ball and receivers that are not targeted never see the ball, but receivers do have a vision check and if they fail the check they are forced to slow down while the ball is in the air until their speed is sufficiently reduced to pass their vision check. The faster a receiver is running the more difficult the vision check is. So faster receivers need more vision, and vision beyond a basic minimum (that is sufficient for a slower receiver to pass his vision check most of the time at his maximim speed) is wasted on most possession (i.e. Slower) receivers (unless they are going for fakes as one person noted). Can't tell you exactly what that basic minimum number is, though it's probably in the 60s. A rule of thumb I use is vision should be somewhere in the 40%-50% of speed range for receivers.

Originally posted by Dave Mr Majors
I have built a few slower WRs, and mid 60s vision is still plenty to pass the vision check to see the ball in the air. The thing that helps them win the catch ball rolls is high catching and jumping. After that, they are also sitting ducks for KL DBs, so they have to have some strength and carrying.

Yup. 100% this. Add in some blocking and you get one heckuva workhorse dot.

Originally posted by Dave Mr Majors
I have built a few slower WRs, and mid 60s vision is still plenty to pass the vision check to see the ball in the air. The thing that helps them win the catch ball rolls is high catching and jumping. After that, they are also sitting ducks for KL DBs, so they have to have some strength and carrying.

Slow?

Originally posted by Sonic
Slow?

OK, I may have also built some ridiculously fast WRs...

Originally posted by Dave Mr Majors
OK, I may have also built some ridiculously fast WRs...

I find that you can have 50-60 jumping with ~150 speed but need to have agility and catching 90+. Though the WR seems to do alright, it's getting the SA's and % gear that boosts the player. That's were a dot with an edge can stretch the play but find a balance with that edge is a nice trick