Warrior General Games

I made a power wr a couple season back, he did better then the speed wr's

Originally posted by jampysos
STOP WRs...

Yeah I through his team because I liked the name, especially back when it was in pro.

I think it was in the WL at one time?

But this is about speed vs. possession ppl



ok so why were rush hour brought up in a discussion about WRs when they dont even use theirs?

Originally posted by CyberNinja
I made a power wr a couple season back, he did better then the speed wr's

That's a different animal entirely, though. Plus it could very well be that you were using more efficient building techniques on your WR than what they were using on theirs. There are some jacked up build strategies out there... you may have been comparing yourself to terribad WRs.

But let's look at the Archetypes again...

Speedster WR
Majors: Speed, Agility, Catching, Vision, Confidence
Minors: Jumping, Carrying, Stamina

Possession WR
Majors: Agility, Catching, Jumping, Vision, Carrying
Minors: Speed, Stamina, Confidence

Power WR
Majors: Agility, Catching, Strength, Vision, Carrying
Minors: Speed, Stamina, Confidence

Basically dropping Jumping as a Major and adding Strength as a Major.

I think I'd rather have a Power WR than a Possession WR. But I'd rather have a Speedster WR than a Power WR, assuming that both were built properly.

Originally posted by spindoctor02
Neither possession nor speed archetypes have strength as a major/minor, so if the "pWRs have a tad bit more strength" as you claim, that'd be entirely a build choice by the agent, not because of the archetype.

Never said it was part of the archetype. (Only reason imo is to add legitimacy to the poWR build)
But anyway, it seems like a regular thing for pWR agents to do, therefore it becomes the acceptable/expected course of action...


Originally posted by Novus

Jumping is a Minor for Speedster WRs but a Major for Possession WRs, so yes, Possession WRs will have more Jumping... but not double. So the Possession WR will be a little bit better at making disputed catches. But being slower, he'll have more disputed pass attempts than the Speedster WR will -- and disputed catches are harder to make in the first place.
1 agent (fastest example I could find):
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2353870
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2530302

But he has this: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2798720
^Which is awesome, but wrong arch imo.

Another inaccurate statement saying the pWR will be slower,
plenty of pWRs with 100+ natural speed like sWRs.

Here comes the argument question again:
Now if we have WRs same speed and same, why go with the sWR?

where are all the 100+ natural speed possession WRs with a minor in speed

cuz that'd be a really ineffectively built dot

http://goallineblitz.com/game/roster.pl?team_id=6004 - WL Champs - all speed WR archetypes

http://goallineblitz.com/game/roster.pl?team_id=605 - WL Silver gif - all speed

http://goallineblitz.com/game/roster.pl?team_id=357 - other HOOD team, 2nd in last 2 GLB tourney's - all speed

http://goallineblitz.com/game/roster.pl?team_id=6577 - 4 time WL champ - 3 speed, 3 possession

http://goallineblitz.com/game/roster.pl?team_id=5517 - another DS team - 5 speed, 1 possession

http://goallineblitz.com/game/roster.pl?team_id=1509 - 4 time WL champ HHWC - all speed

no power WR archetypes on any of these rosters

Originally posted by jampysos
Another inaccurate statement saying the pWR will be slower,
plenty of pWRs with 100+ natural speed like sWRs.

Originally posted by Timetoshine-Metta
where are all the 100+ natural speed possession WRs with a minor in speed

cuz that'd be a really ineffectively built dot

This. You can get a Possession WR up to 100 Speed natural, sure. But you can get a Speed WR up to 100 Speed natural earlier and spending fewer SPs for the same Speed.

Jampy, start a Possession WR and a Speedster WR on the same day, and have them both immediately race each other to 100 Speed natural. Thanks to the ALGs, the Speedster WR will get there first and will be able to start working on other attributes while the Possession WR is still working on getting Speed up to 100.

By the time they both get to Level 79, the Speedster WR will have been built far more efficiently, which means he'll have more points in the rest of his Attributes: Agility, Catching, Vision, and even plenty of Jumping as well. In contrast the Possession WR had to spend more SPs and more time on Speed, which is SPs and training time he wasn't able to spend on his other attributes.

Granted, that's an idiotic way to build a Possession WR anyway... pushing a Minor attribute first is never a good idea. But even if you build the Possession WR in a way that doesn't suck, if you still want to get Speed over 100 natural, you're still going to have a hard time of it thanks to the lower ALGs on Speed, and it still means you're going to have to take Skill Points and training time away from other attributes to get Speed up to 100 natural.

By the way, the Possession WR you pointed out? http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2353870 He only has 82 Speed natural -- nowhere near 100.

Originally posted by jampysos
Never said it was part of the archetype. (Only reason imo is to add legitimacy to the poWR build)
But anyway, it seems like a regular thing for pWR agents to do, therefore it becomes the acceptable/expected course of action...

True. However, there is nothing about the Possession WR Archetype that makes them inherently stronger than a Speedster WR just by virtue of Archetype alone.

Build a Possession Archetype WR and give it as much Strength as you want. I'll be able to build a Speedster Archetype WR that has just as much Strength, built just as efficiently as you built yours.

Now, if you build a POWER Archetype WR, yeah, my Speedster Archetype WR won't be able to match his Strength. But you know what? Neither will a Possession Archetype WR.

And on your Jumping examples...

Originally posted by jampysos

1 agent (fastest example I could find):
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2353870
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2530302

But he has this: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2798720
^Which is awesome, but wrong arch imo.

Yep, your first WR (the Possession WR) has 91 Jumping, almost double that of your second WR (the first Speedster WR), 52. However, that's not because of the Archetype... it's because the second agent just doesn't like Jumping.

Now look at the third WR (the other Speedster WR)... he has 80 Jumping, almost as much as the Possession WR. He couldn't get it quite as high, but he came pretty close.

You're putting too much significance on the individual build choices that particular agents make, and not enough significance on the ALGs you get from the Majors and Minors in each Archetype.

Originally posted by jampysos
sWRs can just run,

pWRs have a tad bit more strength, usually double the jump, more vis. etc.

I think that will help in the WL/upper pro more than trying to outrun CBs built not to be outran....



so basically...you are telling me that speed WR's have the most relevant attribute as a major but I can get a bunch of useless things from the other arch? WHERE DO I SIGN UP?

Originally posted by Timetoshine-Metta
where are all the 100+ natural speed possession WRs with a minor in speed

cuz that'd be a really ineffectively built dot

I have seen a lot of different dots over the last few days, and I am not exaggerating.

Originally posted by reddogrw
...........................

no power WR archetypes on any of these rosters


nothing about poWRs in this thread. try 1 moar time.

Originally posted by Novus

By the way, the Possession WR you pointed out? http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2353870 He only has 82 Speed natural -- nowhere near 100.

^That was to quickly prove a point about jumping, not speed.
I also posted the highest jumping sWR by far I have ever seen on GLB. (80 nat)

You say pushing speed would be a bad way,
but why wouldn't people when everyone is obsessed with this need for speed.

@Above
You are pushing on the comment I made about how 'pwr are generally stronger' or something along those lines.
I said that, based on a build to build standpoint.

If I went back and counted how many pWRs had 40+ str and how many sWR had 40+ str,
pWR would win hands down. It's just not common for people to put as much str in sWRs as I have seen
built into pWR.

Remember:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2353870
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=2530302

Thanks Novus,
but I hope you understand the point I am trying to understand,
as I am not intentionally trying to have a debate,
I just want to understand why/how this huge favor of 1 arch/buildtype is so much more preferred than the other. (Which seems more dominant imo)

Originally posted by bhall43
so basically...you are telling me that speed WR's have the most relevant attribute as a major but I can get a bunch of useless things from the other arch? WHERE DO I SIGN UP?



This is another point then

Is jump/str/vis useless on a WR?

Originally posted by Timetoshine-Metta
where are all the 100+ natural speed possession WRs with a minor in speed

cuz that'd be a really ineffectively built dot

Pretty sure CerNeT has a couple of these and probably more efficient than either of our dots combined.

Originally posted by Novus


You're putting too much significance on the individual build choices that particular agents make, and not enough significance on the ALGs you get from the Majors and Minors in each Archetype.

I know the ALGs....

But you are not hearing me when I say p much every speedster is built the same.
pWR has all the variation when it comes to receiving builds.

If I am playing right into the defenses hands (trying to outrun short light CBs with the same exact speed and agi as my short and light WR) Why is that worth it? Why not try to get creative in OUTPLAYING/Outbuilding the CBs.

Unless someone tells me jumping is useless,
then we can this bad boy up and I will get 3 speedster WRs on my team asap next offseason.

Originally posted by jampysos


This is another point then

Is jump/str/vis useless on a WR?

on a speed WR? Pretty much...vision's use is only for fakes essentially. Not to mention FS is favored